Max Flight Time for a BFR? :ARGH:

jhugz

jhugz

Well-Known Member
Let's just say my friend got in trouble for a BFR that lasted 1.9 on the hobbs & 1.3 on the ground. 1&1 is the minimum....:banghead::banghead:
 
If his employer is mad that he went over 1/1 then he needs to find a new employer!

If the pilot was mad then he needs to have the importance and value of teaching to proficiency and that he doesn't get signed off until you are satisfied that he is safe and proficient explained to him.
 
subpilot said:
If the pilot was mad then he needs to have the importance and value of teaching to proficiency and that he doesn't get signed off until you are satisfied that he is safe and proficient explained to him.
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:yeahthat: Tell him if he doesn't like it he can save 40/50 an hr on instructor cost and take it at the local FSDO. :D
 
Always stress to every student that the minimums are MINIMUMS, and are rarely acheived. Give them a list of the maneuvers you want them to perform, tell them prior to the flight how long it should take, and stress that if they need additional training that it will take longer. Its perfectly fine to go over the minimums to ensure the competency of the pilot, but the pilot needs to know how much to expect to spend and understand that any overage depends solely on their performance. If anyone got mad over a long BFR I bet they were just not expecting to spend so much, and were caught off gaurd at the counter.
 
Sounds like your friend works for a POS flight school.

Unfortunately the FAA doesn't care when they are taking his Certificate
 
Say it with me. "Would you like to Biggie Size that?"

Whether you leave now or the FAA takes away your ability to retain employment there because of some policy/feeling/owner brain turd, checking out the drive-thru window at Wendy's might not be a bad idea.

-mini
 
bdhill1979 said:
Sounds like your friend works for a POS flight school.

Unfortunately the FAA doesn't care when they are taking his Certificate
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Proficiency? Who needs that?

I'd be more concerned with the CFIs certificate after the dude wraps up an airplane or overflys Politburo headquarters with a pencil-whipped $45 special FR in his logbook.
 
i don't get worked up over that type of crap. maybe it's thick skin, maybe it's having done this for a while to not get pushed around - maybe it's ego.

The way I see it is if the BFR person is not up to snuff, they get no sig. I've done that.

If the employer pushes me around, I tell them who it is and if they don't like it to go shove it up their butt. I eat ramen. That's okay with me. $.25 a pack baby!

Either way, I am the authority on the matter and carry myself as such. It's diplomatic, but this is my profession, which is most of the word of "professional." If they (whoever has the problem) want to spend the time, money and energy to get where I am, have at it.

Until then....
 
The only time I have ever seen a customer get upset is if you are not upfront with him. If you are the kind of instructor who has never done a flight review in less than 5 hrs., then say so. But don't tell someone the min. is one hr in the air and one hr on the ground and then say I don't know how long it will take.
 
I had a student come in for a BFR once who hadn't flown in 25 years.


The BFR lasted three weeks.
 
jhugz said:
It is not only the student that thinks this is to long.
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My BFR after breaking my collar bone in college with a <fill in any derogatory word you wish> instructor was 16 lessons long. We sat for almost 10 hours going through all of part 25/61/91 and select sections of 141. I was only half way to my instrument and he figured that would be a good time to just cover everything and anything related to visual and instrument. The flight time was 5 hours if I recall and a few hours sim/ground time spent on NDB approaches during this time.

This was the same instructor that failed a buddy of mine freshman year for not having the checklist memorized, after taxiing down to the run-up area on lesson 3. Needless to say he was fired, only took two years.
 
This is what "my friend" does for a BFR. He is upfront w/ all his students on this is exactly is what is going to happen. As long as "he" is pretty sure that the student isn't going to get him or himself violated or killed he gets a sign off. "He" can care less if he can do steep turns exactly to PTS standards as long as he knows how to operate the airplane safely w/ good ADM.

Flight Review Plan of Attack

Depart out of FDK, head out to the Western Practice Area. (In between Middletown & the Potomac River)

Stalls (Power On/Off) , Departure Stall Simulated Engine Out No Power Recovery , Steep Turns , Unusual Att.'s , Sim. Engine Out to an off-field landing.

Track to the MRB VOR @ 3500 ft. under the hood and then dead rec. to W35.

No Flap Landing, Short Field T/O & Landing, Power Off 180, Go-Around.

Tell him to head back to FDK but then divert them to HGR. Tower Op's and a diversion 1 T&G departure to the South-East. Fly to FDK at 3000 ft. Simulated Engine-Out over FDK.

All done. Never more then 2.0 on the hobbs but yet I pretty much cover it all.

Not going to post the ground but it is pretty standard.
 
That is a thorough Flight review. It does cover everything that is important. I like the departure stall no power recovery. It sounds like "your friend" has a great plan of action together and noone could argue that it isn't fair.

I agree that the steep turn and procedures of a PTS maneuver are not that important, and I am the same way. I just want the person to get me to and from somewhere correctly with a couple landings and some emergency procedures, stall recoveries, and of course here, get around the SFRA.

Keep doing your (I mean your friends) thing (of course I know you will), and come work in Manassas, if your boss gets too much more ridiculous.

I feel for ya. :beer:
Just for the record, my shortest version of a flight review, (for people, who I don't have any concern about), is still 1.5-1.7 in the air...
 
http://rgl.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_G...CB2F6B39028B7146862569DC00721F42?OpenDocument

61.56 Flight review.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (f) of this section, a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training. The review must include:
(1) A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter; and
(2) A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate.




The flight review should be tailored to the airman and the certificate held by the airman.
 
29.92inHg said:
I agree that the steep turn and procedures of a PTS maneuver are not that important,
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PeterPilot said:
(2) A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate.




The flight review should be tailored to the airman and the certificate held by the airman.
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2 excellent points.

I have observed that typically green CFIs who have come from a ""bigger institution" tend to forget not everyone with a pilot cert wants to be Chuck Yeager.

It takes a bit of time for them to figure out that BFR maneuvers do not have to be preformed like within a 141 school or to PTS standards, and that it is an evaluation and assessment of safety.

Flight reviews, just like individual flights, need to be tailored to the student as peterpilot said.
 
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