Man Dragged off United Flight

I think some of you guys fail to understand that without passengers flying on your airplane, you won't have a job. Now I'd agree that this guy had a "Milton" moment. But the other passengers on the plane that witnessed this act in person felt that this guy was treated unjustly. That's over 100 paying passenger that United stands to lose. Yes, I'm sure some will eventually ride United again. But the stink on this cheese is strong and only getting stronger.

You guys are looking at passengers as a jaded girlfriend that always comes. Eventually she will get to the point that she never comes back. You guys keep on keeping on though. This just ensures that your high value customers will continue to come fly on the planes I operate.

Like I said earlier, my biggest concern is foreign carriers, who's noses already under the tent, walks right on in because you all left the door open.
Its more it encourages bad behavior. We get treated like crap by people on a daily basis. And anything that encourages that behavior is not gonna go well for crews or agents. I am all for reimbursing passengers for issues that arise. But when someone throws a fit and ignores crew, then gets a hefty sum, I feel it sends the wrong message.
 
Its more it encourages bad behavior. We get treated like crap by people on a daily basis. And anything that encourages that behavior is not gonna go well for crews or agents. I am all for reimbursing passengers for issues that arise. But when someone throws a fit and ignores crew, then gets a hefty sum, I feel it sends the wrong message.

Guess what though. The airlines treat their customers like crap on a daily basis also.

I get capped on also. But it's my job to ensure that my passengers are taken care of. I can't treat them badly and expect to be ok with it.

I'm on an airline twice a month going to and from work as a paying passenger. I've seen gate agents yell at passengers on numerous occassions. So the very first representative of a company a passenger sees going into an aircraft is treating them badly. The travel experience is just not what it used to be. Sure ticket prices are a lot lower than what it used to be. But that doesn't give airlines the right to treat their customers badly.

There will be some passenger bill of rights ammendments added because of this situation.
 
You can ask for just a mileage credit. Surely, you could use those one day. How long does it take to write a quick email?

More time than I care to spend. I care about getting home. Seat in first is great, seat in coach on time is fine too. The point is, I shouldn't have to complain when one thing is paid for and I get something else. The refund should be issued by the gate when it happens. The reason it is not is that in most cases, no one will bother complaining, because they reason (correctly) that their time is worth more than whatever they would end up getting.

Same reason I don't pay for choosing a coach seat or SWA early bird or anything like that - it is more work for me to complain when I don't get the seat or boarding priority, and usually I end up getting nothing anyway. Easier to just not pay for it.
 
Guess what though. The airlines treat their customers like crap on a daily basis also.

I get capped on also. But it's my job to ensure that my passengers are taken care of. I can't treat them badly and expect to be ok with it.

I'm on an airline twice a month going to and from work as a paying passenger. I've seen gate agents yell at passengers on numerous occassions. So the very first representative of a company a passenger sees going into an aircraft is treating them badly. The travel experience is just not what it used to be. Sure ticket prices are a lot lower than what it used to be. But that doesn't give airlines the right to treat their customers badly.

There will be some passenger bill of rights ammendments added because of this situation.
I agree that airlines do treat passengers like crap, and a lot of stuff needs to change. It definitely needs to be fixed on both ends. Some policies definitely need to change. But I am not entirely convinced rewarding bad behavior is gonna fix all this.
 
More time than I care to spend. I care about getting home. Seat in first is great, seat in coach on time is fine too. The point is, I shouldn't have to complain when one thing is paid for and I get something else. The refund should be issued by the gate when it happens. The reason it is not is that in most cases, no one will bother complaining, because they reason (correctly) that their time is worth more than whatever they would end up getting.

Same reason I don't pay for choosing a coach seat or SWA early bird or anything like that - it is more work for me to complain when I don't get the seat or boarding priority, and usually I end up getting nothing anyway. Easier to just not pay for it.

You aren't comparing the same things. You gripe that the airline mistreated you, but how would they know if you never tell them? Maybe it would help change a process for the better. If you don't speak up, then they didn't do anything wrong. It takes less than five minutes to give feedback. Positive or negative and I give it either way, especially positive because there are so many whiners, it's nice to give compliments to those who don't get recognized enough. It made my day when I worked in customer service that someone would make the effort.

As far as all those optional add ons, they are just that, optional. If you want them, you pay more, if you don't, so be it.
 
I agree that airlines do treat passengers like crap, and a lot of stuff needs to change. It definitely needs to be fixed on both ends. Some policies definitely need to change. But I am not entirely convinced rewarding bad behavior is gonna fix all this.

I don't think it's rewarding bad behavior. United handled this situation badly. They know it. They failed. They acknowledge that they failed. They didn't even go as far as they could have gone, incentive wise, to convince additional passengers to give up their seats. I'd bet gate agent pressure to have this flight leave on time played a big factor. Airlines seem to value on time departures over good customer service these days. They are going to be paying for this one for a while.
 
As far as all those optional add ons, they are just that, optional. If you want them, you pay more, if you don't, so be it.

Well, if you want them, and pay for them, and don't get them -- usually no refund. So they are optional for the airline to provide, but mandatory for me to pay for if I don't get them.
 
Not only did the pax get one hell of show but they are getting complete refunds. #unitedrocks

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...d-fares-all-flight-3411-passengers/100384450/

Only after the CEO issued two non apologies while the media • storm built and built. Without some firm and transparent changes in policies United's notoriously terrible customer service will linger. This post explains your demeaning attitude to those of us critical of United. There seems to be a culture of hostility to their paying customers that's existed since even before the Continental merger and it's only gotten worse.
 
I don't think it's rewarding bad behavior. United handled this situation badly. They know it. They failed. They acknowledge that they failed. They didn't even go as far as they could have gone, incentive wise, to convince additional passengers to give up their seats. I'd bet gate agent pressure to have this flight leave on time played a big factor. Airlines seem to value on time departures over good customer service these days. They are going to be paying for this one for a while.
I completely agree with that. But you have to agree that he acted poorly on the plane. If someone throws a tantrum on a plane, I would deem them a security threat. While United could have done a lot more, and I really hope this changes how they do things, The tantrum is what I dont like what I see being rewarded.
 
I completely agree with that. But you have to agree that he acted poorly on the plane. If someone throws a tantrum on a plane, I would deem them a security threat. While United could have done a lot more, and I really hope this changes how they do things, The tantrum is what I dont like what I see being rewarded.

I mentioned earlier that he had is Milton moment. That was an "Office Space" reference. Was it really a tantrum though?

 
I completely agree with that. But you have to agree that he acted poorly on the plane. If someone throws a tantrum on a plane, I would deem them a security threat. While United could have done a lot more, and I really hope this changes how they do things, The tantrum is what I dont like what I see being rewarded.

I don't agree with how either party handled it, but this backlash is because literally anyone who flies knows that could have been them and there's jack chit they can do about it. And really United is catching all the flak that the Chicago DAPD should be getting as it was their officers that escalated everything.
 
The tantrum is what I dont like what I see being rewarded.

Of course the argument could also be made that the gate agent threw a temper tantrum by calling the cops to fix a mess the agent helped precipitate. Having dealt with some pretty bad gate agents, I can tell you of several temper tantrums from that angle. And, yes, the CEO initially rewarded that agent's temper tantrum by publicly defending what later turned out to be pretty darned indefensible.

I've seen several people say that the passenger ignored crew orders. Is that really the case? Because everything I've seen/read says that the gate agent was the one ordering him off, not the crew.
 
I mentioned earlier that he had is Milton moment. That was an "Office Space" reference. Was it really a tantrum though?

Maybe tantrum was the wrong word, but generally if a crewmember asks you to do something, you should generally comply. Or at least go up to the gate. Things have a tendency to escalate farther than needed in closed quarters. Hopefully this whole incident makes United look at how these things are handled. That we can both agree on.
 
I think some of you guys fail to understand that without passengers flying on your airplane, you won't have a job. Now I'd agree that this guy had a "Milton" moment. But the other passengers on the plane that witnessed this act in person felt that this guy was treated unjustly. That's over 100 paying passenger that United stands to lose. Yes, I'm sure some will eventually ride United again. But the stink on this cheese is strong and only getting stronger.

You guys are looking at passengers as a jaded girlfriend that always comes. Eventually she will get to the point that she never comes back. You guys keep on keeping on though. This just ensures that your high value customers will continue to come fly on the planes I operate.

Like I said earlier, my biggest concern is foreign carriers, who's noses already under the tent, walks right on in because you all left the door open.

I have never understood how pilots don't get this. The customer is literally the only reason we show up in the morning, we should be treating them a lot better. So many guys have the "I just fly the plane" attitude and don't think about how their behavior or even demeanor effects the product and in turn the passenger. I get that it's hard after a full day flying, and I get that people are rude and treat you terribly, but flying passengers has always been a "customer service" industry.

Maybe we'll get hyperloop out of this.
 
I have never understood how pilots don't get this. The customer is literally the only reason we show up in the morning, we should be treating them a lot better. So many guys have the "I just fly the plane" attitude and don't think about how their behavior or even demeanor effects the product and in turn the passenger. I get that it's hard after a full day flying, and I get that people are rude and treat you terribly, but flying passengers has always been a "customer service" industry.

Maybe we'll get hyperloop out of this.
I think too many people blame us for everything. We can bend over backwards and try to give them the best experience ever, but I think writing letters are more effective than yelling at crew members. Thats a lot of peoples frustrations. Its not that we dont care. You give a person an inch and they run with it.
 
I think too many people blame us for everything. We can bend over backwards and try to give them the best experience ever, but I think writing letters are more effective than yelling at crew members. Thats a lot of peoples frustrations. Its not that we dont care. You give a person an inch and they run with it.

Not all passengers are this way and I'm more than irritated that you feel that way. There are plenty of your countrymen flying around for weddings, funerals, visits to family and friends in the hospital, a vacation that they saved up all year for and while you may get some horribly entitled customers now and then that everyone has to deal with when some difficulty arises that prevents a mom from seeing her dying son, a father of modest means from taking their children on a vacation that they saved up all year for or a grandma traveling to see her grandchild be the first in her family to graduate college and you expect them to kiss your ass?

I know there are some hopelessly entitled passengers and there's no pleasing them, but as an American I can guarentee you that they're a minority no matter how frustrating they might be.
 
I think too many people blame us for everything.

Who is blaming you for anything?

But anyway, I think customers already have pretty low expectations. They expect to pay for a seat, and if the flight doesn't cancel, be transported to where they bought the ticket to within a few hours of when originally scheduled.

(For what it is worth, United is totally within their rights to boot anyone when they need to take must rides. And they can totally call the cops when someone they boot doesn't want to go. But all of this should really be on the ORD police, who easily could have brokered a better solution for everyone involved. )
 
I think too many people blame us for everything. We can bend over backwards and try to give them the best experience ever, but I think writing letters are more effective than yelling at crew members. Thats a lot of peoples frustrations. Its not that we dont care. You give a person an inch and they run with it.

I don't think that apologizing to the man you had the police come on the plane and beat constitutes giving them an "inch."

If you went to the store, bought some milk, paid for it, then as you were about to pour a glass, someone from the store came in and said, "hey there, sorry, but our contract of drinkage states that we can 'bump' your ability to drink milk up to the point that you drink it when our employees are thirsty - sorry, here's a voucher for future milk availability and a coupon for more milk," wouldn't you be pissed? It's a big inconvenience, it's an annoyance, and not only that but when you say, "are you serious? I just bought this?!" They call the cops so you can't drink it.

I get that that analogy is stretching it a bit - but regardless, this sort of thing is ridiculous and that's exactly how the public sees this. How would this fly in any other industry?! - that's what people are upset about. It wouldn't, when people buy something, they expect to be able to use the service they purchased. When they can't, I believe they are rightfully upset. It's not just the actual violence anymore either - it's the threat of violence. That guy coming out of Lihue in first class had the same issue. It's BS.

Flying is already a dehumanizing and awful experience on most airlines. You show up way early, because the lines - Jesus the lines. You get your "papers" checked after standing in line for an unnecessary amount of time while dealing with the mandatory and idiotic security theater we call the TSA - which, by the way has an absurd amount of body pat downs and groin touching and power-tripping maniacs. After you put your shoes back on, you trudge to the gate so that you can sit in an uncomfortable pressurized metal tube for several hours. They board - so you stand in line like cattle again, go down the jet way, climb into an unbelievably uncomfortable seat designed to jam as many people as possible into the tiniest space. You're jammed into the middle seat between the 350lb dude with a glandular disorder in the window seat and the businessman on the right who passive-aggressively refuses to share an armrest. If you want to eat - they charge you. Too much baggage? Pay up. Want to watch a movie - headphones are only $5, what are you complaining about?! And on top of all this, you're going to be subjected to employees that are rude or think it's ok that the threat of a beating from the police will help keep you in line.

But no - it's totally OK that United did this. If you give those passengers an inch they'll take a mile.

Face it - at most carriers, flying sucks in the back. While cheap fairs are what the customer "wants" - they also want to feel like a customer and not like some moderate inconvenience between layovers. Having "good" customer service isn't that hard, but it has to come from the top down, and front-line employees have to be empowered to make things better for the people they're serving. A lot of airlines do a damn good job...many do not. Why is it so hard to treat people like...people and not self-loading freight? There's more to providing an excellent experience than "Oh, I went around the turbulence, and kept the deck angles comfortable the whole flight." Smile, greet your people if possible (I know sometimes you can't), and care about why they're on the airplane. They're why you're showing up to work.

And I should add, I'm fine with them bumping the gal wearing the Yoga pants - she was non-rev, she knew the rules or at least should have. I recently got bumped from a flight, it sucked, and because I had an appointment, I ended up having to buy a ticket on the next flight, but them's the rules, that's fine I'm grateful I had the possibilityt. When you're a PAYING passenger, you should at least be able to count on not being bumped off of your flight because crew scheduling didn't have their • together.
 
I must be lucky-i don't airline a lot, but I've done it a lot more in the past 2 years, and I don't see the terrible experience that is being presented by some. Sure, diverting to KTN at midnight sucked, but even that would have been fine if we hadn't had a 2 year old and a 2 month old with.
 
Who is blaming you for anything?

But anyway, I think customers already have pretty low expectations. They expect to pay for a seat, and if the flight doesn't cancel, be transported to where they bought the ticket to within a few hours of when originally scheduled.

(For what it is worth, United is totally within their rights to boot anyone when they need to take must rides. And they can totally call the cops when someone they boot doesn't want to go. But all of this should really be on the ORD police, who easily could have brokered a better solution for everyone involved. )
People blame us for things breaking, weather being crappy, delays, etc. Because we are the front line employees, its all on us. And we try to do the best job we can with what we have been given. Its really difficult some days.

I don't think that apologizing to the man you had the police come on the plane and beat constitutes giving them an "inch."

If you went to the store, bought some milk, paid for it, then as you were about to pour a glass, someone from the store came in and said, "hey there, sorry, but our contract of drinkage states that we can 'bump' your ability to drink milk up to the point that you drink it when our employees are thirsty - sorry, here's a voucher for future milk availability and a coupon for more milk," wouldn't you be pissed? It's a big inconvenience, it's an annoyance, and not only that but when you say, "are you serious? I just bought this?!" They call the cops so you can't drink it.

I get that that analogy is stretching it a bit - but regardless, this sort of thing is ridiculous and that's exactly how the public sees this. How would this fly in any other industry?! - that's what people are upset about. It wouldn't, when people buy something, they expect to be able to use the service they purchased. When they can't, I believe they are rightfully upset. It's not just the actual violence anymore either - it's the threat of violence. That guy coming out of Lihue in first class had the same issue. It's BS.

Flying is already a dehumanizing and awful experience on most airlines. You show up way early, because the lines - Jesus the lines. You get your "papers" checked after standing in line for an unnecessary amount of time while dealing with the mandatory and idiotic security theater we call the TSA - which, by the way has an absurd amount of body pat downs and groin touching and power-tripping maniacs. After you put your shoes back on, you trudge to the gate so that you can sit in an uncomfortable pressurized metal tube for several hours. They board - so you stand in line like cattle again, go down the jet way, climb into an unbelievably uncomfortable seat designed to jam as many people as possible into the tiniest space. You're jammed into the middle seat between the 350lb dude with a glandular disorder in the window seat and the businessman on the right who passive-aggressively refuses to share an armrest. If you want to eat - they charge you. Too much baggage? Pay up. Want to watch a movie - headphones are only $5, what are you complaining about?! And on top of all this, you're going to be subjected to employees that are rude or think it's ok that the threat of a beating from the police will help keep you in line.

But no - it's totally OK that United did this. If you give those passengers an inch they'll take a mile.

Face it - at most carriers, flying sucks in the back. While cheap fairs are what the customer "wants" - they also want to feel like a customer and not like some moderate inconvenience between layovers. Having "good" customer service isn't that hard, but it has to come from the top down, and front-line employees have to be empowered to make things better for the people they're serving. A lot of airlines do a damn good job...many do not. Why is it so hard to treat people like...people and not self-loading freight? There's more to providing an excellent experience than "Oh, I went around the turbulence, and kept the deck angles comfortable the whole flight." Smile, greet your people if possible (I know sometimes you can't), and care about why they're on the airplane. They're why you're showing up to work.

And I should add, I'm fine with them bumping the gal wearing the Yoga pants - she was non-rev, she knew the rules or at least should have. I recently got bumped from a flight, it sucked, and because I had an appointment, I ended up having to buy a ticket on the next flight, but them's the rules, that's fine I'm grateful I had the possibilityt. When you're a PAYING passenger, you should at least be able to count on not being bumped off of your flight because crew scheduling didn't have their together.

As for your milk analogy, I think it would be wrong if they did that and I never signed a contract. But if I had signed a contract stating they could do that I would buy my milk and hope for the best.

And I agree, flying is a terrible experience now a days. The problem is people expect LCC fares, with United first class experience. Thats what the average person expects. And I totally understand, it makes sense

I try to provide people with a good experience. I will try hard and get people to where they want to go. Unfortunately people are never happy. Maybe its because you havent flown 121 pax, but its very easy to get discouraged. Every day I get discouraged. Nobody is appreciative of the work you put in, nobody understands that a lot of what happens comes based on decisions from above, etc. No matter what happens, the crew gets blamed. I see it from a daily basis from almost every passenger. It is very easy to want to tell people to sit down, shut up, and hold on. But we dont. We really try hard to give people what they want. I go out of my way to give better views of Crater Lake as we fly by, or point out Mt. Shasta. Nobody ever says thank you for the little stuff.

My personal opinion is that the average IQ drops when entering the airport. No matter how many times we tell people they wont buckle up, they stand up as soon as the wheels leave the ground, etc.

I get that people have bad days, and flying sucks. But the flight crew is human. We are tired, working many legs, and just want to go home. But we have to keep the smile. Its what we do. A simple thank you from passengers goes a long way.

In this incidents case nobody asked the cop to beat the crap out of him. That was all on him.

Thats my rant for the night. Maybe its just my opinion after flying passengers. Dont get me wrong, I love what I do. But it is the most unappreciated job ever. Its always your fault, you never did a good enough job, and people hate you.
 
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