Man Dragged off United Flight

Am I the only one looking at this mess and saying to myself why the airline business in the only one I know that sells a product/service while hiding behind a 50+ page "contract" that's often only to be found online, that's hard to read unless you're a lawyer, and that pretty much abrogates any responsibility on the part of the company for pretty much anything even if it's something directly under their control?

No other business I know of is allowed to operate like this. And such "contracts" if implemented by other businesses would be tossed right out by the judge as unenforceable. Yet a lot of people here seem to think this is perfectly all right, even when others have indicated how silly these "contracts" are when applied to other business transactions, such as buying milk or dining at a restaurant.

Sorry, but these "contracts" are ridiculous, and in any other business application would be deemed by most judges as null and void in a lawsuit, and I think deep down pretty much everyone here agrees with that whether or not they want to admit it.
 
RDoug said:
Am I the only one looking at this mess and saying to myself why the airline business in the only one I know that sells a product/service while hiding behind a 50+ page "contract" that's often only to be found online, that's hard to read unless you're a lawyer, and that pretty much abrogates any responsibility on the part of the company for pretty much anything even if it's something directly under their control?

No other business I know of is allowed to operate like this. And such contracts if implemented by other businesses would be tossed right out by the judge as unenforceable. Yet a lot of people here seem to think this is perfectly all right, even when others have indicated how silly these "contracts" are when applied to other business entities, such as buying milk or dining at a restaurant.

Sorry, but these "contracts" are ridiculous, and in any other business application would be deemed null and void in a lawsuit, and I think deep down pretty much everyone here agrees with that whether or not they want to admit it.
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This is the crux of the issue.
 
Richman said:
Want pricing to make sense? Want better service? No problemo! We should have a government agency oversee and regulate fares and service for civil aeronautics.

We could have a group of civil servants on a board...no scratch that, we'll make them political appointees so they'll "reflect the will of the people". They'll force the airlines to have a load factor of about %65 and increased seat pitch in top of that, so there's plenty of room for everyone. But they'll also have a mandate that the airlines make SOME money, so with the lower load factors and increased service requirements, prices will go up, and well, not everyone is going to be able to afford it. Fares will be transparent alright...very high with maybe, maybe a %10 discount for a round trip ticket. It'll be nice for those who are on an expense account.

Lessee, a one way coach ticket from NY to LA was about $200 in 1960...doesn't sound too bad until you plug it into the inflation calculator....lessee....$1300 in today's dollars, so about $2400 for that round trip.

With that kind of cost, you're probably going to see a decrease in numbers...some of that frequency is going to suffer. The good news for you train and bus fans...lots more opportunity there....unless maybe the government wants to provide a subsidy to fly to East Nowhere...but I thought subsidies were bad?

This board of appointees...hmmm, I know, we could call it, hmmmm, I know, the civil aeronautics board...

Richman
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I think you read a little too much into my post...
 
RDoug said:
Am I the only one looking at this mess and saying to myself why the airline business in the only one I know that sells a product/service while hiding behind a 50+ page "contract" that's often only to be found online, that's hard to read unless you're a lawyer, and that pretty much abrogates any responsibility on the part of the company for pretty much anything even if it's something directly under their control?

No other business I know of is allowed to operate like this. And such "contracts" if implemented by other businesses would be tossed right out by the judge as unenforceable. Yet a lot of people here seem to think this is perfectly all right, even when others have indicated how silly these "contracts" are when applied to other business transactions, such as buying milk or dining at a restaurant.

Sorry, but these "contracts" are ridiculous, and in any other business application would be deemed by most judges as null and void in a lawsuit, and I think deep down pretty much everyone here agrees with that whether or not they want to admit it.
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That's ok, just make the tickets Non-refundable, just like every other venue on the planet.

Problem solved.
 
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Wow, CNN has a news conference on with the 'victims" very scum bag attorney. The whole thing is very bizarre. He claims to have a concussion, broken nose and broken teeth. I'd like to see those medical records.
 
SeanD said:
Wow, CNN has a news conference on with the 'victims" very scum bag attorney. The whole thing is very bizarre. He claims to have a concussion, broken nose and broken teeth. I'd like to see those medical records.
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Not just his attorney, but he's missing, and his daughter is there. What a scam!
 
RDoug said:
Am I the only one looking at this mess and saying to myself why the airline business in the only one I know that sells a product/service while hiding behind a 50+ page "contract" that's often only to be found online, that's hard to read unless you're a lawyer, and that pretty much abrogates any responsibility on the part of the company for pretty much anything even if it's something directly under their control?

No other business I know of is allowed to operate like this. And such "contracts" if implemented by other businesses would be tossed right out by the judge as unenforceable. Yet a lot of people here seem to think this is perfectly all right, even when others have indicated how silly these "contracts" are when applied to other business transactions, such as buying milk or dining at a restaurant.

Sorry, but these "contracts" are ridiculous, and in any other business application would be deemed by most judges as null and void in a lawsuit, and I think deep down pretty much everyone here agrees with that whether or not they want to admit it.
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I'd say because the airlines operate in an insanely dynamic environment. Highly regulated, working with old infrastructure, dealing with weather on a daily basis. They have to have contingencies built into their tickets because so much of the operation is out of their control.

Just a guess.
 
SeanD said:
Wow, CNN has a news conference on with the 'victims" very scum bag attorney. The whole thing is very bizarre. He claims to have a concussion, broken nose and broken teeth. I'd like to see those medical records.
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You didn't see the video of his face getting smashed into an armrest with plenty of force before he's dragged off covered in blood?
 
thevideographer said:
You didn't see the video of his face getting smashed into an armrest with plenty of force before he's dragged off covered in blood?
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Unfortunate for the fine gentleman. It didn't look like the officers "roughed him up" in the sense of taking unnecessary cheap shots. At some point he was getting removed, and removing what looks to be a 200lb adult male from a confined area is not easy nor pretty.
 
mshunter said:
Not just his attorney, but he's missing, and his daughter is there. What a scam!
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How do you get scam out of that? A concussion is a serious injury. He could still be under medical observation at the hospital. He could also still be in pain from it. I got a concussion when I was a kid. The migraine didn't go away for over a week.
 
av8tr1 said:
How do you get scam out of that? A concussion is a serious injury. He could still be under medical observation at the hospital. He could also still be in pain from it. I got a concussion when I was a kid. The migraine didn't go away for over a week.
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You're talking about a guy who spent most of his professional career BSing people into believing he wasn't trading narcotics for sex or illegally prescribing narcotic medication. This is where his past as a criminal matters.
 
srn121 said:
Me any many other people will be happily taking our business elsewhere. United has been aspiring to be more like Spirit for some time and now they're probably in a deadheat as to who has the worst customer service. Mission accomplished management, I suppose.

Most of the arguments I've read show its quite disputable whether he violated their contract of carriage since he was already on board the plane. I'm not a lawyer and I don't really give a , I just don't know why you signed up to launch to United's defense. I haven't read a EULA in my life or all the million of clauses hidden away on every little thing I buy in my life as I don't have the time and I wonder about the lives of people that actually do.
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I'm not defending United and your free to chose your air carrier. I agree United is a hollow shell of what it was, and its likely this could have been handled better. You saying my points are an effort to defend the company is akin to me saying you think it reasonable to be lawless and disrespectful.

My issue is outrage fatigue. Had this person simply complied with the lawful requests made of him by both the airline and police, no video, no outrage. There are protocols for handling this situation and if anything the outrage should be either directed at the individual who failed to comply, or the officer who chose to bloody him up.

Airlines deny boarding daily. Often it is greatly inconvenient to the passenger. Up until now the way to handle it was to ask for a supervisor and demand through reason and respect what is guaranteed by the contract entered voluntarily and maybe more through the conventions of customer service.

Now it seems the way to handle things is to behave like a petulant child, get video taped disobeying lawful police orders, and end up some form of folk hero over literally nothing. This wasn't the last flight off Ton Son Nhut. He wasn't having his civil rights abused.

So go ahead, be more than irritated, you already said United is avoid at all cost for you anyway so I bet they're really concerned about your opinion. I'm irritated, too. Likely dozens of passengers were denied boarding that day, and they're not news as they behaved as reasonable adults. This guy acts like a four year old and gets two teams of attorneys and a march from Rainbow Push.

I suppose those who behave in a manner with thoughts of others beyond themselves learned a further lesson from this, sadly.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
av8tr1 said:
How do you get scam out of that? A concussion is a serious injury. He could still be under medical observation at the hospital. He could also still be in pain from it. I got a concussion when I was a kid. The migraine didn't go away for over a week.
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He was released yesterday.
 
av8tr1 said:
Released doesn't mean cured or not under medical observation.
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Just correcting your comment about him still being at a hospital. The extent of his injuries are very suspect. Really the officers should have handcuffed or zip tied his ankles and wrists and carried him out of there. I would feel sorry for him if he hadn't acted like a child and asked them to drag him off. Shady is the only word that comes to mind with this guy. The press conference was ridiculous.
 
SeanD said:
You're talking about a guy who spent most of his professional career BSing people into believing he wasn't trading narcotics for sex or illegally prescribing narcotic medication. This is where his past as a criminal matters.
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So he's done some bad things (criminal) that makes it ok for United to treat a paying pax this way? What does his criminal past have to do with how he is treated as a paying pax? Other than having terrorists ties his past shouldn't have any bearing on his treatment as a paying customer.
 
Avgirl said:
Just correcting your comment about him still being at a hospital. The extent of his injuries are very suspect. Really the officers should have handcuffed or zip tied his ankles and wrists and carried him out of there. I would feel sorry for him if he hadn't acted like a child and asked them to drag him off. Shady is the only word that comes to mind with this guy. The press conference was ridiculous.
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I agree the press conference was ridiculous but that's how the personal injury works.

Doesn't change the fact that the guy was treated entirely wrong.
 
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