Looking to meet ATP mins by July. SOCal let's fly

[FL350]

I assume most of us are aware that come August, to take the ATP test you will need a 30hr ground course, and 10hrs in a level C simulator... approved course can't be done part 61 etc..
So I'm trying to build up time to get my ATP before August!

I'm in southern california: CFI-I, CMEL, CSEL

Looking to split time, build time, instreuct, saftey pilot, etc.. Anything to get more time in the sky

 

[b17]

I am trying to do the same. However, as I understand it, those new regs are to be eligible to take the written test. So get your written knocked out before July and you will have 2 years to take the ATP check ride. Hope that relieves some stress.

 

[FL350]

I am trying to do the same. However, as I understand it, those new regs are to be eligible to take the written test. So get your written knocked out before July and you will have 2 years to take the ATP check ride. Hope that relieves some stress.

I understand that it's practical and written. I'll have to look into it more

 

[word302]

The ground course is specifically for the sign-off for the written.

 

[jgheggie]

The ground course is specifically for the sign-off for the written.

This is correct

 

[FL350]

"Pilots pursuing an ATP certificate after July 31, 2014, in addition to having 1,500 hours, will have to complete a new, yet-to-be developed, ATP certification training program. The program, consisting of 30 hours of ground and 10 hours of simulator training, must be completed prior to being eligible to take the ATP written and practical tests. The 10 hours of simulator training will include six hours of training in a level C or D (full-motion) simulator. According to the rule, this course will only be offered through Part 141, 142, 135, or 121 certificate holders, not allowing for Part 61 flights schools to develop courses and provide the training. "

This is from AOPA, which leads me to believe that even if you get the written done before August, you still must complete the ground and sim course to be eligible for the Practical Test starting in August..

I don't think having the written done before August precludes you from the ground/sim requirement if you take your practical after August

 

[jgheggie]

"Pilots pursuing an ATP certificate after July 31, 2014, in addition to having 1,500 hours, will have to complete a new, yet-to-be developed, ATP certification training program. The program, consisting of 30 hours of ground and 10 hours of simulator training, must be completed prior to being eligible to take the ATP written and practical tests. The 10 hours of simulator training will include six hours of training in a level C or D (full-motion) simulator. According to the rule, this course will only be offered through Part 141, 142, 135, or 121 certificate holders, not allowing for Part 61 flights schools to develop courses and provide the training. "

This is from AOPA, which leads me to believe that even if you get the written done before August, you still must complete the ground and sim course to be eligible for the Practical Test starting in August..

I don't think having the written done before August precludes you from the ground/sim requirement if you take your practical after August

I was wrong. I just did some more research and the ATP law effective in July this year will require the training and written for the ATP. So contrary to what I've seen before, and what has been on this site, you need the ATP before this date to avoid the new training requirements. Not just the written done first.

EDIT: I will add a link to the official FAA publication when I get home. I'm on my phone at the moment.

 

[Inverted25]

Please do because I was told by our local FSDO only the written must be done by July to avoid the extra training

 

[Inverted25]

After July 31, 2014, a person who applies for the knowledge test for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating must present a graduation certificate from an authorized training provider under part 121, 135, 141, or 142 of this chapter certifying the applicant has completed the following training in a course approved by the Administrator.



That is straight from the FARS. This goes along with what the local FSDO told me that you would have to have the class to take written after July but if you take it before July ends the written is still valid for its normal two years and you wouldn't have to take the class as long as you take test before written expires

 

[jgheggie]

After July 31, 2014, a person who applies for the knowledge test for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating must present a graduation certificate from an authorized training provider under part 121, 135, 141, or 142 of this chapter certifying the applicant has completed the following training in a course approved by the Administrator.



That is straight from the FARS. This goes along with what the local FSDO told me that you would have to have the class to take written after July but if you take it before July ends the written is still valid for its normal two years and you wouldn't have to take the class as long as you take test before written expires

The way I read it and understood it is that you can take the written before the date and without the training. However, after the date you would need the extra training prior to even taking the written.

But if you take the written before the date...but DO NOT get the ATP then you will have to still do the additional training. So even if you take the written prior to the date you will still need the extra training if you do not get the ATP.

To me... It sounds like the rule doesn't change the written much. So if you can get the ATP before the date then do it. But if not...then no rush for the written because it will not make a difference.

 

[Inverted25]

The way I read it and understood it is that you can take the written before the date and without the training. However, after the date you would need the extra training prior to even taking the written.

But if you take the written before the date...but DO NOT get the ATP then you will have to still do the additional training. So even if you take the written prior to the date you will still need the extra training if you do not get the ATP.

To me... It sounds like the rule doesn't change the written much. So if you can get the ATP before the date then do it. But if not...then no rush for the written because it will not make a difference.

Where do you see that though? All it says in FARS is that you need that class for the written nothing about the practical. If you needed it for the practical period after July they would have just said that and not put needed for the written because that would make no difference.

 

[PropSettin']

After July 31, 2014, a person who applies for the knowledge test for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating must present a graduation certificate from an authorized training provider under part 121, 135, 141, or 142 of this chapter certifying the applicant has completed the following training in a course approved by the Administrator.



That is straight from the FARS. This goes along with what the local FSDO told me that you would have to have the class to take written after July but if you take it before July ends the written is still valid for its normal two years and you wouldn't have to take the class as long as you take test before written expires

^THIS

 

[jgheggie]

After July 31, 2014, a person who applies for the knowledge test for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating must present a graduation certificate from an authorized training provider under part 121, 135, 141, or 142 of this chapter certifying the applicant has completed the following training in a course approved by the Administrator.



That is straight from the FARS. This goes along with what the local FSDO told me that you would have to have the class to take written after July but if you take it before July ends the written is still valid for its normal two years and you wouldn't have to take the class as long as you take test before written expires

This is mostly correct.

Where do you see that though? All it says in FARS is that you need that class for the written nothing about the practical. If you needed it for the practical period after July they would have just said that and not put needed for the written because that would make no difference.

I was quoted some false information by the chief pilot of the local flight school I just rented an aircraft from. I apologize!!!

You're mostly right. Per 61.35, 61.39 and 61.156 the extra training is required for the knowledge exam after July 31, 2014. If you take the knowledge exam before then, then it will work for the ATP practical.

However, it looks like after July 31 the written will be good for 3 yrs and now require an age of only 18?? This ones a little confusing...

Also, after July 31 you can take the practical with an EXPIRED written if you are currently working as a crew member or a few other options...

I suppose with this whole EXPIRED written rule, I should take my ATP written now with only 300tt and perhaps I will be employed as a crew member if it expires by the time I get 1500.

 

[jgheggie]

So to clarify....

Short answer is to take the written ASAP before July 31 and then you can take your time on doing the practical.

 

[word302]

Where are you getting your info. People are directly quoting the fars. What part of the fars is "mostly" correct.

This is quoted directly from 61.155
d) An applicant who successfully completes the knowledge test for an airline transport pilot certificate prior to August 1, 2014, must successfully complete the practical test within 24 months from the month in which the knowledge test was successfully completed. An applicant who passes the knowledge test prior to August 1, 2014, but fails to successfully complete the practical test within 24 months must complete the airline transport pilot certification training program specified in §61.156 and retake the knowledge test prior to applying for the practical test.

This is mostly correct.



I was quoted some false information by the chief pilot of the local flight school I just rented an aircraft from. I apologize!!!

You're mostly right. Per 61.35, 61.39 and 61.156 the extra training is required for the knowledge exam after July 31, 2014. If you take the knowledge exam before then, then it will work for the ATP practical.

However, it looks like after July 31 the written will be good for 3 yrs and now require an age of only 18?? This ones a little confusing...

Also, after July 31 you can take the practical with an EXPIRED written if you are currently working as a crew member or a few other options...

I suppose with this whole EXPIRED written rule, I should take my ATP written now with only 300tt and perhaps I will be employed as a crew member if it expires by the time I get 1500.

I'm not sure at all where this is coming from. If you take the test before Aug 1, you must be 21 and it is good for 2 years. If you take the test after Aug 1, you may be 18 and it is good for 5 years (requires the CTP) This comes from order 8080.6G

I doubt any 121 company is going to hire you with an expired written.

 

[jgheggie]

Where are you getting your info. People are directly quoting the fars. What part of the fars is "mostly" correct.

This is quoted directly from 61.155
d) An applicant who successfully completes the knowledge test for an airline transport pilot certificate prior to August 1, 2014, must successfully complete the practical test within 24 months from the month in which the knowledge test was successfully completed. An applicant who passes the knowledge test prior to August 1, 2014, but fails to successfully complete the practical test within 24 months must complete the airline transport pilot certification training program specified in §61.156 and retake the knowledge test prior to applying for the practical test.



I'm not sure at all where this is coming from. If you take the test before Aug 1, you must be 21 and it is good for 2 years. If you take the test after Aug 1, you may be 18 and it is good for 5 years (requires the CTP) This comes from order 8080.6G

I doubt any 121 company is going to hire you with an expired written.

I said I was confused with that part because it said 18. And I never said someone will hire you with an expired written. I'm just saying that the reg says you can take the practical with an expired written.

 

[word302]

I said I was confused with that part because it said 18. And I never said someone will hire you with an expired written. I'm just saying that the reg says you can take the practical with an expired written.

Sorry. It just sounded like you were encouraging everyone to run out and take the written. I would say get it done if you are reasonably confident you will meet the mins in the next 2 years.

I have a hunch the airlines are going to start providing the required training/sign-off for the written once this CTP becomes a requirement.

 

[word302]

Back to building time in SoCal. I have a line on a 310 based at KSNA for around $100/hr after splitting the costs. I'm looking to do some IFR cross country time building. I am a CFII working on my MEI.

PM for details.

 

[FL350]

@word302 I'll PM you.

and maybe @MidlifeFlyer can clarify this confusion over the FAR's

 

[jim511]

Where are you based out of?