JetBlue Pilots Association

FlyChicaga said:
That seems very clear to me in the English language. I will follow the guidance provided by ALPA, and I will continue to offer jumpseat privledges to the pilots of JetBlue, SkyWest, Colgan, or any other non-union airline.[/size][/left]
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Great! You read the first paragraph of Section 115. Now read the whole thing.

As you do, you might look for some of these highlights:

1. The Captain has FINAL authority over the jumpseat.
2. No one will be accomodated unless BOTH crewmembers are comfortable with him. (That shoots your allegation that F/Os have no say in the matter).

And my personal favorite:

3. Union cards MAY be used as additional identification.

You (and the rest of your ilk) love to use the "ALPA does not support" language.

"Does not support" is incredibly weak when compared with the rest of the Section.

So, do yourself a favor. READ THE WHOLE THING FOR COMPRHENSION. Then get back to us.
 
P&H said:
LOL gimme a break.

Compare the contracts of ALPA carriers vs in-house unions. UPS, AA (never lost their pension???), SWAPA...There's a reason United is getting ready to dump ALPA.

ALPA's problem is that their focus is so huge that they've lost their effectiveness.

For the record, I am a card carrying ALPA member, and I support them, but I'm not stupid either. You can't go and say things like the above and be taken seriously. Research first.
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A few things we should clarify.

UPS, AA, SWAPA, and we will throw in Airtrain spend millions per year to ALPA for consulting services on their contracts. If Jetblue votes in an in house union, I'll guarantee that they sign a contract with ALPA for consulting services.

Actually, the UAL pilots that wanted to decertify ALPA gave up in October

Also can you expand on how if 'ALPA is so huge they lose their effectiveness?' Isn't strength in numbers a lot better than a bunch of little ants running around all alone?

If you are an ALPA carrying member, your MEC I am sure would LOVE the help to make the profession better. You can't b*tch if you don't get involved.
 
Velocipede said:
You (and the rest of your ilk) love to use the "ALPA does not support" language.

"Does not support" is incredibly weak when compared with the rest of the Section.

So, do yourself a favor. READ THE WHOLE THING FOR COMPRHENSION. Then get back to us.
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Rather than go around in circles trying to comprehend what the intent of the language is, I e-mailed ALPA National for clarification on the matter. I asked them what their official stance is on jumpseat reciprocation between union and non-union airlines. I do not have a response yet, since the offices are closed for the holiday.

Let me be clear: I do not condone the reprehensible pay rates and work rules at airlines such as Skybus and Virgin America. I think it does us a grave disservice as pilots attempting to "raise the bar" to have airlines such as these come in and create havoc. However, I will not deny a pilot when it seems clear to me that both my union and my company agree the jumpseat should not be used as a political tool. We don't allow our companies or the TSA to use it against us as pilots, nor should we use it against each other. There are much better ways to handle this.

This is a slippery slope. Where does it end? Should major airlines deny their regional partners, since management replaced many mainline routes with thousands of regional jets? Should "Airways East" pilots deny "Airways West" pilots because of the arbitration disaster? Should one regional pilot deny another when the mainline partner shuffles flying and jobs are lost?

If we start using the jumpseat in a manner such as this, I am afraid management will pull the plug on jumpseating privledges for commuting and personal business. What is their incentive to offer jumpseating privledges and reciprocation (after all, it's is a union negotiated benefit, not right) if they continuously are feeding calls from other airlines whose pilots could not get to work because they were denied for being non-union?

I'm done discussing this. I'd prefer to wait for an official word from ALPA National on the issue. Until then, I wish the pilots of JetBlue good luck in their union drive. I personally believe JetBlue is a great company, but the pilots deserve more for their hard work and dedication to making it successful.
 
Seggy said:
You can't b*tch if you don't get involved.
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This is a bit of a tangent, but not everyone is cut out to be a union rep. Every pilot that pays their dues is "involved", via their financial support. Not everyone has the time, personality or desire necessary to be a union rep. But the union is there to represent the membership, and that's the WHOLE membership, every dues-paying-card-carrying member. Everyone who pays dues has the right to their opinion, and has the right and obligation to voice their opinion to their elected representatives. Being a rep is a fine thing, but I kind of get irritated hearing "if you don't like it be a rep", because for various reasons, not everyone can be.
 
Amber, I'm not just saying being a rep is the only way to get involved.

ALPA seriously has something for everyone to get involved with. From safety to politics it has something for its membership to look into. Yes some positions can be time consuming, but there are many more that take a day here or there.
 
Too Many Donations

I just read on our pilot forum that JBPA has received much more donations much sooner than expected. I guess the treas (if there is one yet) will have to figure out if some sort of paperwork is required for the gubment.

The point is there have been a lot of donations from pilots outside of JetBlue. That's pretty cool. Velo - are floating us some money already?? Mighty kind of you.
 
P&H said:
Compare the contracts of ALPA carriers vs in-house unions. UPS, AA (never lost their pension???), SWAPA...There's a reason United is getting ready to dump ALPA.
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UPS's contract is excellent, but a full financial analysis of it will reveal that the FedEx ALPA contract is superior. The AMR contract was near the bottom of the industry before 9/11 already, and the SWAPA contract wasn't much better. The rest of the industry came down to that level after the bankruptcy courts rammed concessions down the throats of the legacies. Big difference.

ALPA's problem is that their focus is so huge that they've lost their effectiveness.
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ALPA's structure allows the local MECs to focus on local issues and the National union to focus on issues on an industry- and profession-wide scale. The structure works well, and they are most certainly not ineffective.

For the record, I am a card carrying ALPA member, and I support them, but I'm not stupid either. You can't go and say things like the above and be taken seriously. Research first.
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Research first, huh? I did my "research" through years of ALPA work. Sounds like you could use some.
 
PCL_128 said:
UPS's contract is excellent, but a full financial analysis of it will reveal that the FedEx ALPA contract is superior. The AMR contract was near the bottom of the industry before 9/11 already, and the SWAPA contract wasn't much better. The rest of the industry came down to that level after the bankruptcy courts rammed concessions down the throats of the legacies. Big difference.
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I've asked my Dad about this one, he's been at SWA since '82. He said he used to get noise from Legacy pilots about their payrate, that is untill he told them how much he's made off of profit sharing and stock options. I can say that it far eclipses what even pre-bankruptcy pensions were. Pay isn't everything.
 
Only the guys that were there from the early days have made their millions off of SWA stock options. Those hired in the 90s and afterwards haven't made nearly as much, and certainly not enough to make up for a good B-fund. Besides, pay may not be everything, but your pay rate multiplied by your monthly guarantee is the only thing that is absolutely guaranteed. Any stock options, overtime, profit sharing, etc... is just icing on the cake. When it comes down to it, I'd rather have a $300/hr payrate and 85-hour guarantee than a "good chance" of making lots of money off of options.
 
BobDDuck said:
I hate to tell ya, but common sense isn't part of the ALPA jumpseat policy. So again, you follow the rules WHEN YOU FIND THEM CONVENIENT.

Good thing you now have a high time (and maybe SCAB) pilot in the left seat keeping an eye on you.



:)




Ok, I'm kidding mostly. It may not be your intent, but it REALLY sounds like you are looking down on anybody who doesn't have the "vast" amount of union experience you do and I really have no idea what positions you held while at 9e so I have no way of knowing just what the experience is. As far as I know you were only there 5 or so years so it really couldn't have been that much.

Velo on the other hand is a old crusty bastard and probably has been part of ALPA since before the Wright Brothers joined:)


See, this is what happens when I am on vacation. I get bored and start flaming people. You should see what I've been up to on the in house web board today.
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Only in aviation could this be considered a compliment. Our industry is so messed...
 
I received a reply from the Chairman of the ALPA National Jumpseat Committee. He says, "ALPA's official stance is that 'politics' should not be involved with the decision to deny/accept a pilot for a jumpseat ride, either in the cockpit or cabin." He goes on to quote the exact same paragraphs of Section 115 of the ALPA Admin Manual regarding coercion and intimidation in jumpseat use. We are conversing more about this issue through e-mail, because he is interested in putting a stop to this.

With that, I am done discussing this issue.
 
Yeah, and just remember this. The jumpseat Committees goal is to increase the number of carriers on recip lists.

Of course, that's what he's going to say. I stand by my interpretation of Section 115.
 
mikecweb said:
Are you two at all concerned that this might be taken away if the hard line attitude continues?
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How? Many union contracts, especially at the majors, have a clause that guarantees the right to the jumpseat and the Captain's authority over it. Not to mention that airlines would cease to operate if they eliminated jumpseating. When I worked at Pinnacle and commuted, I would have quit without a second thought if jumpseating went away and my only other option was moving to a NWA domicile. Airlines can't exist without jumpseating.
 
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