JetBlue Pilots Association

They can present all the facts for why it was a dumb idea and how the outcome could have been prevented in an attempt to get different and/or effective people elected to the MEC when the next elections occur.

Along these lines, I learned a whole lot about how ALPA works and what they've done for the airlines and our airline history since I finally sat down and read Flying the Line this past week. I will add my high recommendation for reading it. Working on Vol 2 now...
 
The TWA thing ain't going away. If it was, ALPA wouldn't have offered the millions it did to make them go away. Not just $1M or $2M either. The TWA pilots understand that when a carrier in bankruptcy is bought, the buying party has a lot of liberties on how to treat them. The problem is that they were advised by to pursue a certain path by ALPA and it came out to be 180 degrees out from their best interest - apparently intentionally so.

But it's always the pilot group's fault. ALPA never does anything wrong. Thank God they will never be at JB.

I can make a great rack of baby-back ribs. We're talking falling off the bone tender. My wife taught me to make them. However, if she hadn't, I would have most likely learned them somewhere else at some point in time. No disrepsect to my wife of course. What's the point? You keep hanging on to your "union negotiated jumpseat" like it's something that never could have happened without ALPA. I find that unlikely. In any case you need to get over it and move on to something else. It seems like that's the only carrot you feel you have to dangle.

Now say something else witty like "There are none so blind as those who won't see." How long did it take you to crap out that gem?
 
WestIndian425 said:
Okay so for a quick history lesson, when things like that take place what does ALPA do with the local MEC's?
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Honestly, I'm not sure. I'll let PCL_128 chime in on that one. He's probably got more insight on that. They can't toss them out of office since they were elected by the pilots at their own airline, though.
 
WestIndian425 said:
Okay so for a quick history lesson, when things like that take place what does ALPA do with the local MEC's?
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In general, nothing. It's a rare set of circumstances that ALPA National steps in to overrule or "punish" an MEC. Usually the situation will correct itself by the pilots screaming bloody murder and threatening recalls. Most union reps would rather resign willfully than go through a shameful recall and get thrown out of office.

However, if things get really bad, then ALPA has the ability to place an MEC in trusteeship, usually referred to as "receivership." Basically, the entire MEC leadership is thrown out and the union President at the National level appoints a trustee to oversee the MEC until new elections can take place. This is an extremely rare event. Captain Prater has threatened it with the USAirways MEC because of the mess they created at that company, but he hasn't followed through on it yet.

If the issue is a single rep or a small group of reps rather than the entire MEC, then there are procedures in place to remove an elected rep from his position in special circumstanced. Article VIII hearings are even possible to completely expel a member from the Association permanently. Again, a very rare occurrence.
 
"If he's supporting the union drive, then "welcome aboard." If he's a dimwitted anti-union •, then "sorry, take a hike."

Well, here's how I'm gonna start doing it. I'm gonna start asking offline Capts if they use the jumpseat to push their personal union agenda. If he's dimwitted enough to say, YEAH, then "sorry, take a hike".
 
Good for you, Don. Use the jumpseat as you see fit. Like I said, I support Captain's authority, so even if I don't agree with your criteria for accepting jumpseats, I'll always support your authority to use whatever criteria you want.
 
kellwolf said:
Me thinks Don forgot the sarcasm tag.
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Yeah, I know, but I wouldn't care even if he wasn't being sarcastic. I've been treated like utter sh-- by NWA pilots when jumpseating, and I just thanked them for their time and walked away. Captain's authority over the jumpseat, even when used in ways that I feel are inappropriate, is something that I'll always defend.
 
PCL_128 said:
In general, nothing. It's a rare set of circumstances that ALPA National steps in to overrule or "punish" an MEC. Usually the situation will correct itself by the pilots screaming bloody murder and threatening recalls. Most union reps would rather resign willfully than go through a shameful recall and get thrown out of office.
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Is that how the former TWA folks feel, and since there isn't a local MEC for TWA anymore since TWA ceased to exist, they're taking it out on ALPA National?
However, if things get really bad, then ALPA has the ability to place an MEC in trusteeship, usually referred to as "receivership." Basically, the entire MEC leadership is thrown out and the union President at the National level appoints a trustee to oversee the MEC until new elections can take place. This is an extremely rare event. Captain Prater has threatened it with the USAirways MEC because of the mess they created at that company, but he hasn't followed through on it yet.
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Now I understand why the pilots are upset, but they're also looking to take it out on ALPA National. What was the advice that ALPA National gave to the folks at USAirways?
If the issue is a single rep or a small group of reps rather than the entire MEC, then there are procedures in place to remove an elected rep from his position in special circumstanced. Article VIII hearings are even possible to completely expel a member from the Association permanently. Again, a very rare occurrence.
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I'd love to know about these occurrences, where the extremes took place. :)
 
WestIndian425 said:
Is that how the former TWA folks feel, and since there isn't a local MEC for TWA anymore since TWA ceased to exist, they're taking it out on ALPA National?
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The TWA pilots are merely looking for a scapegoat. The fact is, ALPA National didn't tell their MEC to give up their merger protection. Their hand-picked attorney (who was not an ALPA attorney, BTW) advised them to surrender their merger protections, because he felt that AMR would simply find a way around it through the courts anyway, and the TWA pilots would have ended up even worse off. ALPA National isn't responsible for the decisions made by local MECs on the advice of their own merger attorneys.

Now I understand why the pilots are upset, but they're also looking to take it out on ALPA National. What was the advice that ALPA National gave to the folks at USAirways?
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Again, ALPA National doesn't advise MECs on merger integrations. ALPA merger policy provides for each MEC to hand select their own outside merger attorneys to handle their merger negotiations. ALPA National stays out of it so as to assure that there is no favoritism from the Association to any one pilot group. As to what the USAir merger attorneys advised, I have no idea. I do know, however, that the arbitrator handling the case told the USAir Merger Committee that what they were proposing (a years of service integration) would not be acceptable. He advised them to come back to him with a new proposal that gave the AWA pilots more credit for their seniority. The USAir MEC refused, and the Merger Committee resubmitted the same proposal again. When you specifically ignore the guidance of the arbitrator, you can't expect a favorable outcome. The USAir pilots should be angry at the ones that really caused them this problem: the USAir MEC and Merger Committee. ALPA National's only role in this is to make sure that the merger policy is followed. The policy was indeed followed to the tee, but ALPA National can't force a local MEC to not be dumbasses.

I'd love to know about these occurrences, where the extremes took place. :)
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I can't remember specific pilots off of the top of my head, but there have been instances were reps have been expelled from the Association for improper behavior. None of them have been recent. Examples of "extreme circumstances" would be fraud, taking bribes, criminal activity, etc... Expulsion from the Association is also automatic for anyone that crosses an ALPA picket line.
 
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