JetBlue Pilots Association

I have to say that the few times I've jumpseated on JetBlue the crew's have been some of the most friendly I've ever encountered. I really hope they get a union and some decent pay/protection. It seems like it would be a great working environment then.
 
The crews were great! In fact, I have not had such a warm reception from flight crewmembers while trying to jumpseat in quite a while.
 
There are still lost of folks here that don't really know much about JBPA. I believe she is correct in saying that ALPA will never make it on property, but I also believe there is a lot more support for JBPA than she thinks. It's coming. It's just a matter of time. My prediction: JBPA voted in the first time there is a vote. You heard it here first.

All this still doesn't make me a huge pro-union guy. I think we could do fine without one for a long time. I would never vote for ALPA either. I know this website is populated by lots of ALPA folks so bring on the flame. The fomer TWA guys are suing ALPA for more than $1billion. And it ain't just because they got stapled and furloughed. They believe, and seem to have a very good case, that ALPA really gave them bad advice and failed to represent them in good faith.

Bring on Velo in 3-2-1-
 
Doug Taylor said:
Consolidation. It's not just for breakfast anymore!

"We don't need any M&A language in an enforceable pilot working agreement!"

then:

stapler_01.jpg


"Help! Help! Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeargh!"

*ca chink*
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But wait, that's not a RED swingline! :p
 
WestIndian425 said:
What was the RJDC lawsuit about?
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Basically, a small group of regional lifers at Comair and ASA sued ALPA because they claimed that ALPA (specifically Delta ALPA) had harmed their careers with scope language that limited the number and size of airplanes that they could fly. The lawsuit drug out for 8 years and cost the Association tons of money and resources, and it just recently ended in a settlement that just required ALPA to pay a small portion of the RJDC's legal fees. After years of trouble and tons of money, the RJDC managed to do nothing but tear apart the union and piss people off.



And while we're at it, what's this I'm hearing about USAirways/AWA pilots looking to get rid of ALPA?
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The AWA pilots are not trying to get rid of ALPA. It's just the old USAirways guys that are angry about how the seniority integration went. Instead of placing blame where it belongs (with their own incompetent leadership at the local level), they're trying to blame ALPA National.
 
Did you happen to ask her why she was looking for a ride from a Union pilot? Perhaps she should stick with non-union carriers for her commute if she feels that way.

Just another example of why UNION negotiated jumpseat privileges should NEVER be extended to non-union pilots.
 
Velocipede said:
Did you happen to ask her why she was looking for a ride from a Union pilot? Perhaps she should stick with non-union carriers for her commute if she feels that way.

Just another example of why UNION negotiated jumpseat privileges should NEVER be extended to non-union pilots.
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99.24% sure this occured on a non-union airline flown by an non-union pilot.
 
You know it kills me when people with absolutely ZERO knowledge about a subject love to opine about it.

For instance, the TWA suit.

The fomer TWA guys are suing ALPA for more than $1billion. And it ain't just because they got stapled and furloughed. They believe, and seem to have a very good case, that ALPA really gave them bad advice and failed to represent them in good faith.
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Here, in a nutshell, the prime example. The TWA suit is based on the fact that they were not protected by the ALPA merger/frag policy. However, the ALPA merger/frag policy ONLY applies to ALPA/ALPA mergers. American is not ALPA.

The second point, obviously missed by the original writer, is that ALPA National can ONLY give advice. It cannot make a local MEC do anything. Over and over again, there are examples of how ALPA National gave an MEC the correct situational estimate and the Local MEC failed to adhere to it.

That's what happened at TWA.

The third error in the previous quote is "opining" that the lawsuit is not because the TWA pilots got furloughed and stapled. In fact, that's EXACTLY why the lawsuit came about. Its the same reason the USAir guys are attempting to bolt ALPA now.

They played the game with unreasonable expectations. And when the ruling came out against them, they acted like a bunch of spoiled kids and are trying to take their ball and go home. However, they conveniently ignore the fact that THEIR MEC made all the bad decisions and wrong call. ALPA National is the whipping boy when they really should be looking at their MEC and LEC officers who screwed the pooch.

Sounds to me like someone is getting all their info from a bunch of disaffected, furloughed ex-ALPA members who decided to take a non-Union job and stab the profession in the back. And who's surprised at their opinion?

That doesn't make it factual, however, especially when you consider the level of emotion that the opinon is based on.
 
mikecweb said:
99.24% sure this occurred on a non-union airline flown by an non-union pilot.
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Ding!

PCL_128 said:
I'd raise that to 100% sure. :) But still, the girl deserves a slap upside the head.
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Ding! DING!


Yes, unfortunately at the present time, we are non-union. If all goes well, by Aug. of this year, that will change. We missed by the narrowest of margins this past year.....:(
 
In the case of both TWA and US Airways, if the same people were at the local level, and the union was, say Teamsters, the outcome would have been exactly the same. Like Velo said, it's a local leadership issue, not a national leadership issue. If they do boot ALPA and just re-vote in the same leaders, I have a feeling there's gonna be some VERY disappointed people when they realize it's the same thing, only their dues are going to a different organization.
 
kellwolf said:
In the case of both TWA and US Airways, if the same people were at the local level, and the union was, say Teamsters, the outcome would have been exactly the same. Like Velo said, it's a local leadership issue, not a national leadership issue. If they do boot ALPA and just re-vote in the same leaders, I have a feeling there's gonna be some VERY disappointed people when they realize it's the same thing, only their dues are going to a different organization.
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Okay, Kell (and thanks PCL and Velo). Now then, how close of a relationship do the local unions have with ALPA national? Is ALPA national just advisors (and seemingly the advice is not being adhered to)? I'm still trying to understand how this works (it's only been a year for me).

This seems unrelated since it's a different industry entirely, but I can't help but think about the Transit Workers Union and what took place in NYC a few winters ago when the "powers that be" decided to strike against the MTA during Christmas season, forcing millions to walk or drive. In the end, the same contract that they agreed to was what the MTA had tabled in the first place. I felt for the workers, but I was certainly angry with the union leaders. Now is this just a local issue, or was TWU national (are they national?) directly involved in this process?

If in fact the local unions act foolishly in these cases, how does the National organization (ALPA, Teamsters, etc.) deal with that when it's their name/reputation on the line?
 
ALPA is more or less advisory to the local MECs. There are a lot of examples of times when the local leadership didn't take ALPA national's advice for some reason or another. That's cool. They're not under obligation to do so (as far as I know). But, they'll be on their own with the consequences. For example, PCL's MEC could go insane and organize a sick out. ALPA would no doubt say "This is not only NOT a good idea, but it's not legal under the RLA." Our MEC could say "We don't care" and do it anyway. End result, though, is they'll get sued by the company, lose and cost ALPA $$$ in the process. ALPA's more of a collection of local MECs than a national union.

As for TWU, I have no clue how they're organized. I only know they don't operate under the RLA, and are subject to different rules when it comes to self-help than airlines. The same goes for auto manufacturers.
 
kellwolf said:
ALPA is more or less advisory to the local MECs. There are a lot of examples of times when the local leadership didn't take ALPA national's advice for some reason or another. That's cool. They're not under obligation to do so (as far as I know). But, they'll be on their own with the consequences. For example, PCL's MEC could go insane and organize a sick out. ALPA would no doubt say "This is not only NOT a good idea, but it's not legal under the RLA." Our MEC could say "We don't care" and do it anyway. End result, though, is they'll get sued by the company, lose and cost ALPA $$$ in the process. ALPA's more of a collection of local MECs than a national union.

As for TWU, I have no clue how they're organized. I only know they don't operate under the RLA, and are subject to different rules when it comes to self-help than airlines. The same goes for auto manufacturers.
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Okay so for a quick history lesson, when things like that take place what does ALPA do with the local MEC's?
 
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