JetBlue Pilots Association

HA!

You don't know a thing about me boss, hows about you come to a meet and greet sometime and I'll even buy you a beer and maybe YOU can possibly learn something.
 
Velo, you're wasting your time with FlyChicaga. Just ignore him like I did. His committee experience is all well and good, and I'm glad he volunteers in that capacity, but for him to lecture me about ALPA is just too comical to even respond to.
 
Velocipede said:
As I said before, my current ALPA credentials eclipse that by far.
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Credentials != Experience/Knowledge

Not doubting you, but instead of saying "my wang is bigger then your's" how about something like "when I was on my company's Safety Committee and attending national meetings" etc etc. I don't doubt your experience (and am curious what national experience you have as our MEC chair is currently running for an EVP spot and people are starting to throw the conflict of interest terms around) the way you said it waste a complete waste of text.
 
Time for a picture of a hot girl...


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PCL_128 said:
Velo, you're wasting your time with FlyChicaga. Just ignore him like I did. His committee experience is all well and good, and I'm glad he volunteers in that capacity, but for him to lecture me about ALPA is just too comical to even respond to.
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Lecture you about ALPA? Not exactly. My "lecture" was directed more towards your apparent use of intimidation tactics to get pilots to join the union you feel is the best option. I should point out that the union you feel is "best" is not the union your pilot group belongs to. You are very passionate about your chosen profession, and that should be applauded. There are better ways to achieve the same result, however.

I did not provide my credentials to validate my opinions. I stated those facts so it can be clear than I am NOT anti-ALPA, nor am I anti-union. Rather, I am a proponent of unity among professionals. However, yourself and Velocipede (among others these days) feel that the benefits of the service we professionals provide to the general public is only available to those who are union members. That is ridiculous. You are alienating the exact pilots you hope to join your union. It is no wonder the ALPA drives at SkyWest and Colgan failed. Especially in the case of SkyWest, why would a group who has a good relationship with management suddenly want to align themselves with a group of pilots who use intimidation to get their way?

These intimidation tactics are clear by your explanations of how you handle jumpseaters (actually, how Velocipede handles jumpseaters, since you as a First Officer do not make that decision) and how you interact with members of this board. Rather than enter into a professional, thoughtful discussion about unity among the various pilot groups and the benefits of union membership (particularly for the jetBlue pilots), you would rather focus on my credentials in union volunteership and attempt to discredit me. Somehow you feel that makes your opinions more valid than my own. Instead of making your points more valid, it appears you would rather discredit me based on my age and experience. I'd rather you rebuke my statements about yourself and others destroying any attempts at unifying airline pilots by use of initimidation, rather than acceptance and education.

I should expect no less, however.
 
Velocipede said:
Chicaga,

You have a pretty high horse there. Perhaps you should read Section 115 of the ALPA Admin Manual, concentrating on the nuances of the English language.

There is nothing unethical in adhering to the Admin manual.
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Fair enough. Cut and paste.

PART 1 - JUMPSEAT POLICY
SOURCE - Executive Board October 1997; AMENDED - Board 2000

The following policy provides guidelines that may be used by Master Executive Councils in establishing jumpseat policies and procedures with their respective airlines.

ALPA encourages participation by other pilot unions and officials of non-represented airlines in the industry-wide Jumpseat Task Force.

ALPA encourages all pilots to extend the use of their jumpseats to eligible cockpit crewmembers as a professional courtesy and as a resource to enhance the safety of flight. The Captain is, and shall always be, the final authority as to admission to the flight deck.

Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines or other unions.

Master Executive Councils should appoint a Jumpseat Coordinator/Committee Chairperson and authorize him/her to work with their Company in establishing and administering jumpseat policy and procedures.​
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That seems very clear to me in the English language. I will follow the guidance provided by ALPA, and I will continue to offer jumpseat privledges to the pilots of JetBlue, SkyWest, Colgan, or any other non-union airline.​
​
 
Matt, I'm not going to argue back and forth with you all night. I really don't have the patience. You can talk about "unity among professionals" all you want, but I'm the one that was actually in the trenches working to organize the Colgan and Skywest pilots, and Seggy can testify to the fact that I never once used "intimidation" to convince his pilots to join the Association. I have no desire to "discredit" your credentials, since I'm glad that you volunteer for the Association. I always encourage members to volunteer, because that's what keeps the Association going. But most volunteers don't tell fellow volunteers that have much more union experience that they are "pieces of work" as you did. When you make such comments, you can't expect Velo not to respond in kind.
 
SNAP!!

Agree or disagree FlyChicaga has a very valid point, and his rebuttal was worded in a professional manner.

Attack the argument, not the person. I think I learned that in my first university level history class (where all I did was argue).
 
FlyChicaga said:
That seems very clear to me in the English language. I will follow the guidance provided by ALPA, and I will continue to offer jumpseat privledges to the pilots of JetBlue, SkyWest, Colgan, or any other non-union airline.[/size][/left]
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I won't speak for Velo, but I can tell you that when I was a Captain and had my own criteria for approving jumpseaters, it had nothing to do with "punishing, coercing, or retaliating." I simply don't believe that giving a union negotiated benefit to a non-union pilot is a common-sense thing to do (unless they are working on forming a union). I don't think "punishing" has anything to do with it.
 
I hate to tell ya, but common sense isn't part of the ALPA jumpseat policy. So again, you follow the rules WHEN YOU FIND THEM CONVENIENT.

Good thing you now have a high time (and maybe SCAB) pilot in the left seat keeping an eye on you.



:)




Ok, I'm kidding mostly. It may not be your intent, but it REALLY sounds like you are looking down on anybody who doesn't have the "vast" amount of union experience you do and I really have no idea what positions you held while at 9e so I have no way of knowing just what the experience is. As far as I know you were only there 5 or so years so it really couldn't have been that much.

Velo on the other hand is a old crusty bastard and probably has been part of ALPA since before the Wright Brothers joined:)


See, this is what happens when I am on vacation. I get bored and start flaming people. You should see what I've been up to on the in house web board today.
 
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