Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's?

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Sorry to say it, but I agree. When you accept employment at a lower-tier carrier, you have to be prepared to be an FO at such a carrier indefinitely.

I've said it in the past and i'll say it again. Only two things generate upgrades: 1. Growth, and 2. Attrition.

Where would you like to be when the music stops?

Another vote in "Eliminate the Stepping Stone Mentality"

Starting to sound like I'm still beating a dead horse? Hope so...
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Yup. I came to Eagle knowing the upgrade time was non-existant. Still is for the time being. I had/have no delusions of going to a major. I have no delusions (now) of going to a frac. I may aim for a corporate gig or something to do with corporate flying....but Eagle is where I'm going to be for the duration of my airline career.

The industry would have to change DRAMATICALLY for that statement to change.


:rawk::rawk::rawk::rawk:

You rock dude. You and me can rock the Decade To Upgrade program and then ride it out until they kick us out.

Screw this "upward and outward" crap. So-called 'Regionals' just use it to keep their payrolls low.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Screw this "upward and outward" crap. So-called 'Regionals' just use it to keep their payrolls low.

Finally someone has actually LEARNED from the mistakes that I (and so many more on this board) used instead of just dismissing us.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Screw this "upward and outward" crap. So-called 'Regionals' just use it to keep their payrolls low.


You know even in this economy, we've still got people here convinced they're only gonna be at Pinnacle until they hit 1000 TPIC? We've got quite a few people here who's reality check bounced.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

:rawk::rawk::rawk::rawk:

You rock dude. You and me can rock the Decade To Upgrade program and then ride it out until they kick us out.

Screw this "upward and outward" crap. So-called 'Regionals' just use it to keep their payrolls low.

Makes you feel good we left Colgan when we did right? We'd still be FO's and in ThatOtherDude's position.


To the original poster, hate to say it but yer screwed. For awhile anyway. There was a mass movement of FO's leaving Colgan just a few years ago for the exact reasons that you hate life there right now.

I'd like to think we knew what was coming in the future, or maybe we just got lucky or maybe some of us came to the realization that rather than race to the end, we should make smart decisions to keep us happy today.

Firebird left for Eagle and despite his decade to upgrade, the dude's happier than a tool in a box. I as well as a few others left CJ for Republic. I experienced a short furlough, but I'm back to work and hitting 2nd year pay is like being a Captain at Colgan, only I work less and enjoy the job more.

You either have to ride it out until other places start to hire and then jump ship, or jump ship and go do something else. It sucks, but its the exact reason why so many of us got lucky and bailed before the music stopped. There was no way in hell I was going to be in a Colgan chair when the music stopped. I feel your pain.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

:rawk::rawk::rawk::rawk:

You rock dude. You and me can rock the Decade To Upgrade program and then ride it out until they kick us out.

Screw this "upward and outward" crap. So-called 'Regionals' just use it to keep their payrolls low.
I'm witcha bro!

I look at it this way: I'm almost 44. I've got 11 years left on my career if I stay at an airline. I'm with a very good company. Yes, we have our problems - but, doesn't everyone?

You pick the property and deal with the poison. It's at every regional/major out there.

I'm still at least 1.5 years.....if not more.....from upgrading. What would be the benefit of going to a major at my age?

Pension? Those are going away.
Salary? Those are coming down - even at the majors.
Upgrade? At my age, it will not happen at a major...ever.
Better contract? We can (and will) work for that here at Eagle when our freaking 16 year contract runs out.

Right Charlie?????







That's what I thought. :bandit:
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

On a serious note, I don't and probably will NEVER understand why people bitch about the job. Its like any other. Don't like it? Bail, find a new career. No one is holding a gun to your head.
Why make a change when its easier to sit in you're dirty diaper and cry in your beer. Its the solidarity man, solidarity! You've got to complain for your brothers!


Do some people just want to be miserable?
Yes, they're too scared to do something different. These are the guys that had SJS so bad they were shaking.


The light at the end of the tunnel is coming from the torch I carry so that I can see the way.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Another vote in "Eliminate the Stepping Stone Mentality"

Starting to sound like I'm still beating a dead horse? Hope so...

That's exactly right! The 'stepping stone mentality' must be eliminated w/ extreme prejudice!

Guess I'll be buying you beers as well.....you're gonna be a stumbling, drunk mess before NJC '09 is over!
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

At Colgan they make you talk to the Chief Pilot every time you call out sick and make you bring in a doctor's note, even if it's your first time calling out. It's worse than school. I appreciate your ideas but walking off the job won't do us any good unless we all do it together and if I go out trying to convince the other 500 pilots at my company to join me then I'm sure I'll be the only one to go when the company finds out.

So seriously...what can we do to make things better? I know there's a lot of guys here that are willing but just don't know what to do and don't have the ability or opportunity to Unite. So what can we reasonably do?

Here is an idea. You could be the head of starting a new ALPA committee, called the "Cleared to Dream Committee", or the "Education Committee", or whatever name you want to call it. Basically, it would be a committee that arranges speaking engagements, and seminars, at Aviation Universities, and Flight Academies, to speak with up and coming pilots, about the issues faced in the airline industry. It can be a way of educating them, and letting them know, that their help will be needed, once on the line, and what they can truly expect, once on the line.

One of the biggest things I notice, is a lack of education, among the people training to become pilots (like myself), as well as, even those, already pilots. I've been amazed at the number of regional and major crews I've talked to, who, they weren't very educated on the issues. Therefore, not only educating up and coming pilots, but also educating your fellow pilots.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Here is an idea. You could be the head of starting a new ALPA committee, called the "Cleared to Dream Committee".

That sounds like money well spent. :sarcasm:
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Here is an idea. You could be the head of starting a new ALPA committee, called the "Cleared to Dream Committee", or the "Education Committee", or whatever name you want to call it. Basically, it would be a committee that arranges speaking engagements, and seminars, at Aviation Universities, and Flight Academies, to speak with up and coming pilots, about the issues faced in the airline industry. It can be a way of educating them, and letting them know, that their help will be needed, once on the line, and what they can truly expect, once on the line.

One of the biggest things I notice, is a lack of education, among the people training to become pilots (like myself), as well as, even those, already pilots. I've been amazed at the number of regional and major crews I've talked to, who, they weren't very educated on the issues. Therefore, not only educating up and coming pilots, but also educating your fellow pilots.

www.clearedtodream.com

Courtesy of ALPA National's Education Committee.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

I realize there is already a clearedtodream.com, that is where I got it from. BUT, do they go around, and speak at the aviation universities, and flight academies, or just have a website that they hope people wonder onto?

I see that people like Kit Darby go around, to these schools, and give seminars, and have speaking engagements. Of course, his are to inform people of the pilot shortage, etc., and how great it is to be doing their training now. Does this ALPA committee go in to these schools, and do the same, except give the other perspective, and tell people what they can really expect?
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

There may be a light at the end of the tunnel...but it's most likely from a train going the other way...

My plan isn't to stay where I'm at..my goal is the orange team, though if I don't achieve that, I'll most likely stick it out where I am. There obviously will be another major shift at the majors, so it's really too hard to speculate at this point.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

I realize there is already a clearedtodream.com, that is where I got it from. BUT, do they go around, and speak at the aviation universities, and flight academies, or just have a website that they hope people wonder onto?

I see that people like Kit Darby go around, to these schools, and give seminars, and have speaking engagements. Of course, his are to inform people of the pilot shortage, etc., and how great it is to be doing their training now. Does this ALPA committee go in to these schools, and do the same, except give the other perspective, and tell people what they can really expect?

Yes, they do go around.

Albeit, many of the committee's members are dealing with the changes in the industry and thus may not be as active as 6 months ago.

In my discussions with the committee chairman, it is up to the ALPA volunteers to go out and seek opportunities to come and speak at schools and job fairs.

Prior to my furlough I was working on speaking at each of our local high schools. Plans have of course changed though. Kinda tough to spread the benefits of the industry from someone who has just been sent out of work. Poor PR, but I know many of my fellow committee members are actively seeking speaking engagements, etc.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

For a while I tooled around with moving on from Colgan, even had an offer at one point, but never really got up the muster to make the move.

A lot of us fall into a situation that becomes routine, and routine is hard to change. Many people at the 1-2 year mark can't wait to move, but those who have hit 3+ are more reluctant to make a move. A 4 yr ca here at colgan is in the top 30% of the senority list... It's hard to imagine going back to the bottom, or sitting reserve.
It's prob not the common thought, but I would rather stick around here and make it better than move somewhere else and have to start all over again
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

For a while I tooled around with moving on from Colgan, even had an offer at one point, but never really got up the muster to make the move.

A lot of us fall into a situation that becomes routine, and routine is hard to change. Many people at the 1-2 year mark can't wait to move, but those who have hit 3+ are more reluctant to make a move. A 4 yr ca here at colgan is in the top 30% of the senority list... It's hard to imagine going back to the bottom, or sitting reserve.
It's prob not the common thought, but I would rather stick around here and make it better than move somewhere else and have to start all over again

Oh dear.
 
Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

As one of my coaches long ago said... Location Location Location. I've not seen much from guys at the majors that would really convince me that they are good places to go. ( Pay rates are nice, but I am not the breadwinner in my family, and I doubt that I will be. That said, QOL for me is location. ) Just because pay is not my greatest concern, doesn't mean i think pay rates are not important, I do... but I won't sacrifice work rules for pay.

seggy and the guys have been very very busy.. I think he said last month he burned over 3400 minutes on his cell... I have faith that they are working hard to fix what this place has become, Hopefully getting a contract nailed out, will be the start to the end of the tunnel
 
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