Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's?

[v1valarob]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

At .... they make you talk to the Chief Pilot every time you call out sick and make you bring in a doctor's note, even if it's your first time calling out.

If you ever do call in sick, when they pass you off to the CP, just hang up and send in an email. If your too sick to work, then it should only be a matter of telling scheduling about it so that they can find someone else to cover you.

If the CP wants a sick note, which he probably wont if its your first time, just say Ok, and call up the ALPA rep that covers your location. I was told that them asking for a note the first time is bull. Plus the fact that if they ever do truly want a note, they will be the ones paying for my doctor visit since I dont have any health insurance and cant afford to go to the doctor over a stuffy head that will be gone in a day.

 

[kellwolf]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

So seriously...what can we do to make things better? I know there's a lot of guys here that are willing but just don't know what to do and don't have the ability or opportunity to Unite. So what can we reasonably do?

To fix things next week? Nothing. To fix things in the long run, get involved. Stand behind your MEC and makes sure you tell them EXACTLY what you want in that first contract. Nothing catches a union off guard more than doing one thing only to have a good chunk of pilots say "That's not what we wanted." Most importantly, VOTE and talk to other pilots that aren't as plugged in to get the word out. Then once you DO get that contract, read it, learn, love it and follow it. We've got the same management, and they'll push it to the limits. If you don't know the contract, they'll roll over you. If you do, they'll get stonewalled. Those sick call meetings with the CP? That's almost borderline intimidation into flying sick. Don't fly sick. If the CP doesn't like it, I'm sure the FAA would LOVE to hear about how you were unable to properly perform your duties b/c you were sick, but the company still wanted you to do so. Downside to doing that NOW is there's no contract to back you up. Good news is you've at least got ALPA on property to go into the meeting with you. Next time you call in sick and they want you to meet with the CP, tell 'em you want a rep there with you. I wager those CP meetings will start to go away if every pilot did that.

Someone said this earlier, but it's really gonna come down to how long you can stick it out. I could quit tomorrow (and will if it gets to the point I can't handle it). I love flying, and for the most part I love my job (I just have issues with the company I work for). That being said, I will NOT do it for free or on the cheap. I provide a professional service and feel I should be compensated as such. I intend to hold on and ride it out for as long as I can.

 

[kellwolf]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

If you ever do call in sick, when they pass you off to the CP, just hang up and send in an email. If your too sick to work, then it should only be a matter of telling scheduling about it so that they can find someone else to cover you.

If the CP wants a sick note, which he probably wont if its your first time, just say Ok, and call up the ALPA rep that covers your location. I was told that them asking for a note the first time is bull. Plus the fact that if they ever do truly want a note, they will be the ones paying for my doctor visit since I dont have any health insurance and cant afford to go to the doctor over a stuffy head that will be gone in a day.

Get in your contract that if the company requires a doctor's note, they have to pay for it. We'll get the "you need a doctor's note if you call in before, on or after Xmas/Easter/Super Bowl/St Patrick's Day (I think we'll get that one, too)." Oddly enough, the way they stupidly word the message "before, on or after" would mean EVERY day, but that's neither here nor there.

If they require a doctor's note, go to an out of network doc and get a receipt.

 

[inside0ut]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

You must have gotten on with some non-american airline.

You, sir, win an award for not reading the sarcasm.:crazy:


On a serious note, I don't and probably will NEVER understand why people bitch about the job. Its like any other. Don't like it? Bail, find a new career. No one is holding a gun to your head.

Do some people just want to be miserable?

 

[Cptnchia]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Do some people just want to be miserable?

In a word - YES. I'm sure we all know someone who isn't happy until they have something to complain about or how they were done wrong.

 

[ready2fly]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

I wonder who kept harping on why upgrade times are irrelevant....

What is this "Upgrade time" of which you speak???????????????

 

[Polar742]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Another example of why the "Stepping Stone" mentality needs eradication.

 

[ready2fly]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Another example of why the "Stepping Stone" mentality needs eradication.

Yup. I came to Eagle knowing the upgrade time was non-existant. Still is for the time being. I had/have no delusions of going to a major. I have no delusions (now) of going to a frac. I may aim for a corporate gig or something to do with corporate flying....but Eagle is where I'm going to be for the duration of my airline career.

The industry would have to change DRAMATICALLY for that statement to change.

 

[Polar742]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Yup. I came to Eagle knowing the upgrade time was non-existant. Still is for the time being. I had/have no delusions of going to a major. I have no delusions (now) of going to a frac. I may aim for a corporate gig or something to do with corporate flying....but Eagle is where I'm going to be for the duration of my airline career.

The industry would have to change DRAMATICALLY for that statement to change.

Stan,

That's why you're a good dude. I owe alot of beers at NJC'09, as long as I make it.

 

[USMC-SSGT]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

My buddy at eagle got it right. Now there is a man you will NEVER hear talking about an upgrade.

He says it gives him one less thing to stress out about since it will never happen.

 

[ready2fly]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Stan,

That's why you're a good dude. I owe alot of beers at NJC'09, as long as I make it.

Why thank you.... and back @cha!!

My buddy at eagle got it right. Now there is a man you will NEVER hear talking about an upgrade.

He says it gives him one less thing to stress out about since it will never happen.

"Never" is a strong word. "Not for a long time" is a better term. I've been here 3 years (as of tomorrow) and I'm still about 150 to 250 numbers (maybe more....I quit looking) away from upgrading.

Like I said: the industry will have to change dramatically...and in this economy, we'd better just be happy we haven't been furloughed.

 

[derg]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

I sense a "gnash cluster" forming!

 

[ready2fly]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

I sense a "gnash cluster" forming!

Aroo???

 

[derg]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Not targeted at you and I probably should have read the entire thread before making a snarky remark! Mea culpa!

Wait, I've used the term "mea culpa" twice in 24 hours and "gravitas" once in the same 24 hour period. I'd better go work on admin stuff for a while before I break another rule!

 

[staplegun]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Maybe, but it seems like a real long tunnel.
I made less than 20k last year at Colgan and maybe will make mid 20's this year. Upgrade now seems like it may not happen for a long time and top FO pay is not going cut it.
So...
The US Government has made it illegal for us to strike via the Railway Labor Act of 1926 amended in 1936 to also apply to the Airlines and the wages are still about the same as back then.

We have ALPA now, which is great for job protection and I'm glad we do but what are they are going to do for wages and how long is it going to take?
Probably a very long time and when it happens I'm sure it won't be anything to brag about because union or no union, we can't strike. :banghead:

So what do we do now? Just go to work everyday and keep hoping things change on their own? Because they're not. And if there's something we can do, what is it? Quit and go do something else after spending all this time, effort and money on training? I'm all open for bright ideas.

I'm with Sully when he said something about not wanting his kids coming into the industry. It's horrible. Most mainline FA's make more than I and nothing against them but they don't have a fifth of the investment, training or responsibility we do.

So anyway, sorry for the long rant but it's been a sad month and I needed to do that.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/airline-pilots/69411-dharma-r-e-m.html


See above!



Kevin

 

[wzgrza]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

These threads come up every now and then.

You have your usual suspects who constantly preach that you got yourself into it, knew what it was like, so shut up and deal with it, because you can't change anything anyways. (aka continue getting the shaft).

You have your other group who think being an airline pilot is a hobby, and that its not all about the money, its a life-style and way of life you have to love, and about the passion of flying, so if you dont like it then spare us all and quit.

The two types above usually come in a mixture, not always one or the other.

Then you have the group that usually starts these threads, that is fed up and frustrated with the way things are, and the hopeless situation that is the airlines, and frustrated that they really can't do anything about any of it.

Then there is the group that is saying "There must be something we can do to make it better, but what?" when in reality, there really isnt anything that can be done until the laws change. So the only thing really to do is make enough noise and disruption to change the laws... which would have to include breaking the laws, so that brings us back to square one. (Land of the free my ass).

Sometimes and usually it's a mixture of the last two, though. Rather then just one or the other.

It always plays out the same, and nothing ever changes.

It's sad. A once great and respected profession, literally a desperate, smoldering, heap.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

I don't like the analogy of "light at the end of the tunnel"... I more like light inside a maze. So we're in this maze and we don't know where we are exactly or which way to go. We each have our own little candle but the light provided by it is insufficient to see anything. However, if people work together they can combine their candles and create enough light to navigate the maze. It's still a maze, though but at least now we can see which way we've gone before and not repeat it if it ended up a dead end.

In other words...

Volunteer at your union. Sounds kind of hokey, but your union is the best bet of bettering your working conditions and wages. Colgan's MEC is new so either they have a whole lot of volunteers or very few...

I just wish there was someone on JetCareers who was like, involved with the Colgan MEC that you could contact.

 

[BajtheJino]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Wow. What regional do you work

I don't

I knew the pay scale and knew the forecast for growth. That's why I made the decision I made.

Then man up and deal with the consequences of your actions. I can't stand people that b&m over their decisions in life. Let me guess, you want someone to make it better for you. Just a quick question-how much leg work did you put in to get ALPA (God save'em)?

They'd be stupid to pays us anymore when they don't have to.

But you still went to work there knowing their payscale is way lower than the competing regionals?

The law is on their side. We can't strike and when it comes to negotiations we're always in the hands of the arbitrators. No matter what airline you work for in the United States of America, you are not getting a fair deal. Not because people aren't willing to say "screw this, let's strike" but because the law says we can't.

This fact is a reminder that life is not fair. Maybe you should look into a career with the railroad. It is my understanding that CSX is hiring. (And they make you pay for training. Prorated at 5 years)

And it's not just the regionals. The majors are in the same boat, they just complain less because they make more. We need the law amended. We need to be able to walk out and refuse to fly. I wrote my Congressman and try to educate everyone I can. That's all I can do short of getting a bullhorn and rallying in the terminal by myself.

Or you could quit and find another job. One that pays you what you're really worth.

It's real easy to flame the regional guys but we're all in this together. Just because you may work for an airline that pays you a few dollars more, what's there to stop them from giving you a pay cut. I.E. Delta, 2005 & US Air

I fly for a profitable airline. Sure, I've got a pay freeze in effect right now but I still have a great q.o.l. Am I upset at the payfreeze, of course but I'm not going to unionize (FedEx would pull our contract so fast we'd be spinning straight to the unemployment line). And your right, its easy to flame regional guys-the same guys that strutted around the flight school like so much hot bragging about getting an interview only to go someplace like Colgan (lowest pay, bad Q.O.L.) and then do nothing but b&m because they thought being a pilot was about LOOKING like a pilot, not actually being one. I'm sorry, I have no sympathy. You don't like it, hit the ground running, find another job (yes, some are out there) leave the industry but for the love of all thats holy stop the incessant complaining.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

Sorry to say it, but I agree. When you accept employment at a lower-tier carrier, you have to be prepared to be an FO at such a carrier indefinitely.

I've said it in the past and i'll say it again. Only two things generate upgrades: 1. Growth, and 2. Attrition.

Where would you like to be when the music stops?

 

[kellwolf]

Re: Is there light at end of the tunnel for us regional FO's

I've said it in the past and i'll say it again. Only two things generate upgrades: 1. Growth, and 2. Attrition.

To add another on to this, if it's #2, you need to ask the questions "Why" and "Where are they going?" If the "why" is b/c CAs are getting hired at other carriers left and right, that's a plus. If it's FOs leaving.....warning. If the "where are they going" is major airlines, factionals or anything else that's a step up, that gets a "we'll see." If it's "other regionals that just pay more"...... warning. We've got a lot of FOs here bitter b/c the upgrades stopped. Thing is, we'd been losing FOs hand over fist since *I* was hired. They'd come, get their 600 hours to get the bonus check, then bail to Skywest, XJT or another "better" regional. Colgan had the same thing. Just look at the guys on here that are ex-Colgan now at Eagle, Republic and Mesaba.

IF you can stick it out, it MIGHT be worth it in the end. As a contrast, Stan's been at Eagle for 3 years as of today. I've been at Pinnacle the exact same amount of time (we started ground school on the same day at two different regionals). I was VERY close to going to XJT. I would occasionally kick myself for not doing so. The sole reason I picked Pinnacle was so I wouldn't have to commute. The fact that I was able to upgrade in about 2 years was a sheer bonus.