I'm getting a little bit discouraged

KLB said:
True. But it does show the ebb and flow of the industry though! The industry's down and most of us are suffering in some form or fashion. It will eventually rebound somewhat though.
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Sure it will.. and then.. it will ebb again and if you're lucky, it won't be while you are still around..

People talk about this ebb and flow as though if they catch one ebb, they will never see another one.. The industry has changed.. It is not what it once was.. Nor will it ever be again and it's gonna get worse before it gets better..

Just curious, when was the last time any of us at a regional had a guy from a major on the jumpseat who was seriously loving his job? Honestly?
 
Got news for ya Tram, cycles are part of the private sector, all of it! Including aviation! If you don't like the cycles get a government job. The retirement ain't what it use to be, but the chances of getting laid off are slim.:nana2:
 
BillErvin said:
Cycles are part of the private sector, all of it!
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That is partly untrue. Depending on what you get into you won't be effected by the downside at all. I chose to take a job in the IT dept for one of the largest commercial real estate company in the world. Downside hit and I got laid off, so I took a job with a company that was calling me for years and guess what, during the same time, this job was actually hiring people. I shoulda went with them from the start, but noooooo I got starry eyed by the view from my office and the marble lobby with huge flat screens:laff:
Don't think I knock the airline industry at all, if someone wants to do it I say go for it but know the possibilities of what could happen. To say you will experience the same in industry A as in Industry B may be true, but noone takes into account the odds of that experience happening. Noone likes innaccurate info about the airlines said, the same goes for other industries.
 
For perspective $65/hr in 1970 is around $360/hr today. So he was making around $360/hr right seat.

A tad bit different than today.
 
C150J said:
The airline industry completely exploits those that love flying.
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Ladies and gentlemen, read this.

Then read it again.

Then get a tattoo of it somewhere on your body.

Then read it to your wife on a daily basis.

Then read it to your kids as a bedtime story.
 
jtrain609 said:
Ladies and gentlemen, read this.

Then read it again.

Then get a tattoo of it somewhere on your body.

Then read it to your wife on a daily basis.

Then read it to your kids as a bedtime story.
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Compared to other aviation jobs 121 is so ridiculously cake it's not even funny. Show up for work, everything gets handed to you, everything is filed, the fueler is automatically notified by ops, the gate agents and F/A handle the pax, you literally don't do anything 95% of the time.

If it weren't so gravy less people would want to do it.
 
wheelsup said:
Compared to other aviation jobs 121 is so ridiculously cake it's not even funny. Show up for work, everything gets handed to you, everything is filed, the fueler is automatically notified by ops, the gate agents and F/A handle the pax, you literally don't do anything 95% of the time.

If it weren't so gravy less people would want to do it.
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It's so cake, that every time we are forced to reject an ASAP due to "intentional disregard," the violation is easily placed on the flight crew and not the dispatcher, fueler, and maintenance controller.

It may be "easy" on the surface, but I assure you that some here need to take their job much, much more seriously.
 
wheelsup said:
Compared to other aviation jobs 121 is so ridiculously cake it's not even funny. Show up for work, everything gets handed to you, everything is filed, the fueler is automatically notified by ops, the gate agents and F/A handle the pax, you literally don't do anything 95% of the time.

If it weren't so gravy less people would want to do it.
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Maybe at your airline that's how things work, but not everywhere.

Continental ops out of Newark were not exactly a well oiled machine. There were many days when nothing is filed correctly, the fueler is no where to be found, the gate agents don't show up, the F/A is inept and you quite literally do EVERYTHING if you want to get the flight pushed back.

The other hubs seemed to function a lot better, but things don't always go according to plan in 121 flying.
 
jtrain609 said:
Maybe at your airline that's how things work, but not everywhere.

Continental ops out of Newark were not exactly a well oiled machine. There were many days when nothing is filed correctly, the fueler is no where to be found, the gate agents don't show up, the F/A is inept and you quite literally do EVERYTHING if you want to get the flight pushed back.

The other hubs seemed to function a lot better, but things don't always go according to plan in 121 flying.
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LOL. I've had too much wine to respond to this one!!:D
 
jtrain609 said:
Maybe at your airline that's how things work, but not everywhere.

Continental ops out of Newark were not exactly a well oiled machine. There were many days when nothing is filed correctly, the fueler is no where to be found, the gate agents don't show up, the F/A is inept and you quite literally do EVERYTHING if you want to get the flight pushed back.

The other hubs seemed to function a lot better, but things don't always go according to plan in 121 flying.
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Wow OK so you pick up the mic and call ops for the fuel truck. Then you put the mic down and pick up the phone and call dispatch to refile you (or use acars). If the agents don't show up you don't move, WTF are you going to do about it? I'm not sure what to tell you about the F/A, I guess you would have to make the safety announcement?

Pretty much everything is done for us these days.
 
C150J said:
It's so cake, that every time we are forced to reject an ASAP due to "intentional disregard," the violation is easily placed on the flight crew and not the dispatcher, fueler, and maintenance controller.

It may be "easy" on the surface, but I assure you that some here need to take their job much, much more seriously.
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Can you expand? I am curious. What is intentional disregard and what are they doing to get a violation? I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. I think there are some guys who definitely don't take it seriously and I think that stems from the complacency and habitual nature of our jobs.

P.S. I now read notams because I find 75% of the CA's don't. Kinda annoying. Familiar with the notam at GSP? Yeah...
 
wheelsup said:
Can you expand? I am curious. What is intentional disregard and what are they doing to get a violation? I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. I think there are some guys who definitely don't take it seriously and I think that stems from the complacency and habitual nature of our jobs.

P.S. I now read notams because I find 75% of the CA's don't. Kinda annoying. Familiar with the notam at GSP? Yeah...
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We handled the GSP incident... sounds like a few carriers got burned on that one. "Intentional disregard" is a hard term to define, but it's used commonly by the FAA to violate those that have truly forgotten the professionalism required to be an airline pilot. Major paperwork discrepancies, lack of basic IFR knowledge, and complacency all come into play. Airline training programs can only infuse so much knowledge into our heads. We have failed as a profession to continually develop as pilots, and instead have become complacent button-pushers. Professional flying demands more than this.

J.
 
i like to think of it as having your wife beat you, you know how bad it is, how bad its going to be, but when your away from her you still love her, and want to get back so she can get beat you up some more
 
Diamnd15 said:
i like to think of it as having your wife beat you, you know how bad it is, how bad its going to be, but when your away from her you still love her, and want to get back so she can get beat you up some more
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I think we found a new catchphrase.

Battered employee syndrome.

Seriously, that's what came to mind when I hear people say, yeah, the pay sucks, and the quality of life sucks. But you know, I LOVE FLYING so I want to keep on doing it.

It's like a battered wife saying, you know, he really doesn't hurt me too bad when he hits me. He doesn't even leave bruises like he used to. And I know deep down he really loves me.
 
I remember an article in Flying magazine a while ago, titled "The glory days are over." Or something close to that.
Required reading for anyone considering jumping in.

It's over Johnny.
 
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