I want an airplane -help me spend my money

Nukem

Nukem

Well-Known Member
Here is my situation.
In a few months I will finish a (non-flying) training program at my work, pass or fail. In either case I will have more time available and either a little more money or considerably more money to evaporate in the warmth that is aviation. I am a CFI but my schedule is irregular and unstable at times so I don't teach, just refresh every two years. I want an airplane but would not really fly enough by myself or with my family to justify ownership.

So I had this idea.
Buy an airplane that is useful to me and my family on occasion but make it available inexpensively for time building with me -to others. The benefits being the airplane gets used, I get to fly with aviation enthusiasts and so does someone else -half price. Reasonably I expect to be able to fly approximately 350 hours a year.

Which airplane?
My kids are mostly grown so I would like to be able to carry four adults plus minimal baggage. Most trips we might make would be less than 3 to 4 hundred miles i.e. to the beach for the day/weekend. A Mooney would be awesome but a 172 might be more practical.
I realize for the cost efficiency aspect a two place would be better and I could rent a 4 place when needed. I am open to any ideas even a tailwheel (I could do endorsements). Being comfortable is important and IFR capability is a factor as well. Oh, lets keep it under $100K.

What are the legalities?
If I post on here (hold out?) when I have time to go fly 50 hours cross county, night or day, IFR or whatever, do I enter the realm of a commercial operation? Does the airplane need 100 hr. inspections? If I estimate a cost of $120/hr and share half of that but in the end it costs 100/hr then I paid $40 and the other people $60. What then? I am probably overthinking this part but I don’t trust the feds to be reasonable.
 
Nukem said:
Here is my situation.
In a few months I will finish a (non-flying) training program at my work, pass or fail. In either case I will have more time available and either a little more money or considerably more money to evaporate in the warmth that is aviation. I am a CFI but my schedule is irregular and unstable at times so I don't teach, just refresh every two years. I want an airplane but would not really fly enough by myself or with my family to justify ownership.

So I had this idea.
Buy an airplane that is useful to me and my family on occasion but make it available inexpensively for time building with me -to others. The benefits being the airplane gets used, I get to fly with aviation enthusiasts and so does someone else -half price. Reasonably I expect to be able to fly approximately 350 hours a year.

Which airplane?
My kids are mostly grown so I would like to be able to carry four adults plus minimal baggage. Most trips we might make would be less than 3 to 4 hundred miles i.e. to the beach for the day/weekend. A Mooney would be awesome but a 172 might be more practical.
I realize for the cost efficiency aspect a two place would be better and I could rent a 4 place when needed. I am open to any ideas even a tailwheel (I could do endorsements). Being comfortable is important and IFR capability is a factor as well. Oh, lets keep it under $100K.

What are the legalities?
If I post on here (hold out?) when I have time to go fly 50 hours cross county, night or day, IFR or whatever, do I enter the realm of a commeblircial operation? Does the airplane need 100 hr. inspections? If I estimate a cost of $120/hr and share half of that but in the end it costs 100/hr then I paid $40 and the other people $60. What then? I am probably overthinking this part but I don’t trust the feds to be reasonable.
Click to expand...

The easiest path is to form an LLC and operate as a flying club. If operation is limited to owner-members, no 100 hour inspections are required. The only commercial activity that is permitted (by most flying club insurance policies) is instruction, but the CFI can't be employed by the club and the CFI and/or student must be a member.

Many legal and insurance issues are easily addressed if pilots have an equity stake, however small.
 
Last edited:
You won't find any Mooney comfortable carrying 2 people, let alone 4.

A 172 is not very practical from a transportation standpoint.

If you don't have a speed requirement, the venerable 182 is a pretty capable airplane. For speed you need a 210. However those are $$.

Let's start with fuel. Per your reqs of 400 miles, IFR:

400 miles / 120 kts (avg) = 3.33 hours air time
3.33 hours x 14 gph (avg) + 1.0 hour IFR reserve = 60 gal of fuel req'd
60 gallons of fuel (conservative) = 400 pounds of fuel.

So take any useful load and subtract 400 pounds, and you'll see how many of your people you can carry, from the airplanes out there.
 
wheelsup said:
You won't find any Mooney comfortable carrying 2 people, let alone 4.

A 172 is not very practical from a transportation standpoint.

If you don't have a speed requirement, the venerable 182 is a pretty capable airplane. For speed you need a 210. However those are $$.

Let's start with fuel. Per your reqs of 400 miles, IFR:

400 miles / 120 kts (avg) = 3.33 hours air time
3.33 hours x 14 gph (avg) + 1.0 hour IFR reserve = 60 gal of fuel req'd
60 gallons of fuel (conservative) = 400 pounds of fuel.

So take any useful load and subtract 400 pounds, and you'll see how many of your people you can carry, from the airplanes out there.
Click to expand...
Comfortable in the Mooney 20F with two MKG to VGT and back....at 5.9GPH as well
 
jskibo said:
Comfortable in the Mooney 20F with two MKG to VGT and back....at 5.9GPH as well
Click to expand...
"Comfortable", I'll buy that. As long as your definition of "comfortable" is also "intimate".

Mooneys, especially earlier model ones like the F, are great values and bang for the buck for the single business guy traveling, but family station wagons they aren't.
 
wheelsup said:
"Comfortable", I'll buy that. As long as your definition of "comfortable" is also "intimate".
Click to expand...
Not bad. Plenty of space between us, never brushed Greg's leg with the Johnson Bar gear.

I'm not exactly a "Small" guy (unless you ask one of the ex wives).........
 
Thanks for the responses.

No speed requirement, I just like to fly.

Half fuel in most 172s gets the four of us to the beach w/reserve and a little gross weight margin. A fuel and bathroom break is not out of the question if all four of us are traveling a greater distance. Most of the time it will be just me and one other person. The thing I like most about the 172 is the simplicity of maintenance and parts availability. There is also the possibility of an autogas STC but avgas is pretty reasonable nearby.

5.9 gph in a Mooney... That sounds pretty practical as well. I have never been with three other people in a Mooney. I imagine it would be intimate.

The commercial operation of the aircraft is the part I am least sure about. As a CFI I know I'm safe with an exchange of money but the plane???

I like the club idea, perhaps with short term memberships.
 
Nukem said:
Thanks for the responses.



5.9 gph in a Mooney... That sounds pretty practical as well. I have never been with three other people in a Mooney. I imagine it would be intimate.

.
Click to expand...

You'll need a "stretch" Mooney to make that somewhat feasible. F or later model adds 10". 5" for rear seat and 5" for baggage. (E might too, but definitely not C or earlier...Those are parents and two small kids planes). Two adults and bags we did VGT to SLN with more than reserves left....Ran out of bladder reserves!
 
Just my $.02 - Get a 180 hp 172 with a gross weight increase. Trained on one with a full fuel payload of 800 lbs and got 110-115kts at 7.5gph. Could get a couple more knots with some wheel fairings if every bit of extra speed is important. But for price and payload, its hard to beat.
 
Sounds like you need a 210 or a 206...

I fly a 210 and comfortably do trips with 4 adults at 154kts true. You could probably find an older model (I'm in a 1964 D model) for somewhere in the vicinity of that 100k, but I'm not an expert when it comes to buying. I will say the maintenance is higher in a retract. Annual costs, etc.
 
I second the 172... Easy to fly and an inherently stable IFR platform as long as you aren't looking for FIKA capabilities. They can be cheap (relative to other aircraft) to fix and most mechanics know how to work on them. They are the Honda Civic of airplanes. You won't be able to take 4 adults anywhere unless that place is 30 to 45 mins away. If you want to take 4 adults plus some bags for a 1.5 to maybe 2 hour flight you are going to need at least a 182 if you want to stick with Cessna products.
 
chrisreedrules said:
If you want to take 4 adults plus some bags for a 1.5 to maybe 2 hour flight you are going to need at least a 182 if you want to stick with Cessna products.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I keep coming back to the 172. Three of the four adults are female. My hope is we can handle two hours in a 172.
What kind of economy fuel burn could be expected in a 182? The question could be rhetorical as I'm looking it up now but am still interested in anecdotal evidence.

While I also really like the Bonanza and 210 (and most other planes) they are bigger than I would take full advantage of. Using it regularly is a high priority and the added operating cost might make many people hesitant to share time. I expect over 80% of the time to only have two on board.
 
Nukem said:
Three of the four adults are female. My hope is we can handle two hours in a 172.
.
Click to expand...

Needs better definition :)

download3.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Rosstafari
Hey, pilots: make sure you have enough insurance. Mine just saved me from ruin.
2
Replies
21
Views
2K
derg
derg
future pilot
Changing careers with a young family
Replies
13
Views
2K
galleycartinop
G
F9DXER
Looking for my first airplane
Replies
12
Views
2K
knot4u
knot4u
NewsBot
  • Locked
Dispatcher
Replies
0
Views
203
NewsBot
NewsBot
barchaim
40 Year Old Career Changer - Looking for Advice
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
///AMG
///AMG
Back
Top