Hawaiian A321 - Smoke in the Cabin

[FlyingAccountant]

Hawaiian Airlines plane makes emergency landing due to smoke in the cabin; 7 hospitalized

The passenger jet was flying from Oakland to Honolulu.

abcnews.go.com

A Hawaiian A321 had to make an emergency landing in HNL yesterday after smoke filled the cabin. The cause was attributed to a leaking seal that allowed oil to hit hot engine parts.

My question, what would have happened had this taken place two hours outside of HNL instead of 20 minutes? Would descending and depressurizing help? Or just press on and hope the pax are still alive when you land?

 

[A300Capt]

It really just depends on what is causing the smoke. We have belly cargo compartment detectors and pilot activated fire extinguishers. Top side we have smoke/fire detectors and mainly rely on depressurization and landing quickly.

Generally, checklists are referenced to possibly isolate and turn off the offending source of the smoke/fire or starve the fire of oxygen. Of course, Lithium batteries have changed the game and how we deal with possible cargo smoke/fire situations. O2 masks (Dixie cups) can be manually dropped for the pax. Bottom line the goal is to get it on the ground ASAP.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Just wanted to point out how morbib this is and I love it. Proper technique is to break the vsi and go missed. Im not an airbus guy so I'm just here for the death jokes.

 

[Baronman]

Hawaiian Airlines plane makes emergency landing due to smoke in the cabin; 7 hospitalized

The passenger jet was flying from Oakland to Honolulu.

abcnews.go.com

A Hawaiian A321 had to make an emergency landing in HNL yesterday after smoke filled the cabin. The cause was attributed to a leaking seal that allowed oil to hit hot engine parts.

My question, what would have happened had this taken place two hours outside of HNL instead of 20 minutes? Would descending and depressurizing help? Or just press on and hope the pax are still alive when you land?

I’d follow whatever the smoke evacuation procedure was and try to identify source of it.

 

[BobDDuck]

MX traced it to a blown engine seal, which led to oil getting into the packs through the engine bleeds.

Solutions... get down to 10K, close the bleeds and depressurize with ram air clearing the cabin. But that of course assumes you know the source is the engines and not something burning in the cabin or cargo bins.

Apparently in this instance, the first indication they got was a cargo fire alert, and then smoke in the cabin and cockpit. Airflow goes from the cabin to the cargo bin to overboard, so if you first get smoke in cargo and then in the cabin, I'd be most concerned about a fire down below that's breached the cabin floor. Fortunately that wasn't the case here and for whatever reason the cargo smoke detectors were sensitive enough to pick it up before the humans upstairs did.

Nice job with the evacuation though... 184 passengers out in 45 seconds with no major injuries.

 

[deadstick]

O2 masks (Dixie cups) can be manually dropped for the pax.

I think that would depends on whether or not the “Dixie Cups” diluter-demand. If so, that would mix contaminated cabin air with O2.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

Just wanted to point out how morbib this is and I love it. Proper technique is to break the vsi and go missed. Im not an airbus guy so I'm just here for the death jokes.

Yeah, I didn't mean for this to sound macabre, I was just curious since this was HA in this particular instance and the ramifications if this had happened farther out to sea where there's obviously nowhere to land.

 

[BobDDuck]

O2 masks (Dixie cups) can be manually dropped for the pax.

In guessing you know this, but maybe not, as it's not something that comes into play in the cargo world, but dropping the masks for the passengers is mostly not a go to item with smoke in the cabin. For one, most systems mix cabin air with the oxygen from the unit so you'd still be getting smoke, and two, adding lots of pure O2 tons an environment that is (potentially) on fire, can cause more issues than it solves. Finally, most airplanes use chemic oxygen generators now instead of O2 bottles for the passengers. These units produce oxygen and a lot of heat. I saw a study that showed there was something like a 5% chance of any individual unit catching on fire from the heat, when activated.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

In guessing you know this, but maybe not, as it's not something that comes into play in the cargo world, but dropping the masks for the passengers is mostly not a go to item with smoke in the cabin. For one, most systems mix cabin air with the oxygen from the unit so you'd still be getting smoke, and two, adding lots of pure O2 tons an environment that is (potentially) on fire, can cause more issues than it solves. Finally, most airplanes use chemic oxygen generators now instead of O2 bottles for the passengers. These units produce oxygen and a lot of heat. I saw a study that showed there was something like a 5% chance of any individual unit catching on fire from the heat, when activated.

"I'd activate the passenger oxygen masks for fumes in the cabin."
"Well, I no longer take you seriously."

 

[Murdoughnut]

In guessing you know this, but maybe not, as it's not something that comes into play in the cargo world, but dropping the masks for the passengers is mostly not a go to item with smoke in the cabin. For one, most systems mix cabin air with the oxygen from the unit so you'd still be getting smoke, and two, adding lots of pure O2 tons an environment that is (potentially) on fire, can cause more issues than it solves. Finally, most airplanes use chemic oxygen generators now instead of O2 bottles for the passengers. These units produce oxygen and a lot of heat. I saw a study that showed there was something like a 5% chance of any individual unit catching on fire from the heat, when activated.

So if you have 184 pax, and a 5% chance of any O2 system independently combusting, you can expect 9.2 of them catching fire. Yikes!

 

[BobDDuck]

So if you have 184 pax, and a 5% chance of any O2 system independently combusting, you can expect 9.2 of them catching fire. Yikes!

No. Each row block of seats (ABC, DEF) has there own generator. Fun fact... there are at least 4 masks per ever generator for 3 blocks of seats. Some have 5. This is why on some planes you can't have to lap babies in one seat block.

The HA 321 NEO has 32 row, so 64 O2 generators... in theory 3 of them would burn. But actually it was a 5% chance of a specific unit, not of all the units. I think the math is different but I can't remember.

 

[Murdoughnut]

A

No. Each row block of seats (ABC, DEF) has there own generator. Fun fact... there are at least 4 masks per ever generator for 3 blocks of seats. Some have 5. This is why on some planes you can't have to lap babies in one seat block.

The HA 321 NEO has 32 row, so 64 O2 generators... in theory 3 of them would burn. But actually it was a 5% chance of a specific unit, not of all the units. I think the math is different but I can't remember.

Ahh, yeah, that would change the numbers. Still, though ... crazy.

 

[STS-41B]

Nice job with the evacuation though... 184 passengers out in 45 seconds with no major injuries.
[/QUOTE]

So.. all aircraft are required to be evacuated in 90 seconds; what do you do when you have elderly and people requiring wheelchairs.. especially straight-backs??

 

[deadstick]

Problem solved!

 

[thevideographer]

I saw a study that showed there was something like a 5% chance of any individual unit catching on fire from the heat, when activated.

Unless you can link to that study and it is very convincing I'm going to assume this is not remotely true.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

Nice job with the evacuation though... 184 passengers out in 45 seconds with no major injuries.

So.. all aircraft are required to be evacuated in 90 seconds; what do you do when you have elderly and people requiring wheelchairs.. especially straight-backs??

That's a good question.

The last time I flew HA PHX-HNL, there had to be no fewer than 25 wheelchair bound people lined up to preboard.

 

[nibake]

That's a good question.

The last time I flew HA PHX-HNL, there had to be no fewer than 25 wheelchair bound people lined up to preboard.

There will be lots of miraculous healing when the time comes to evacuate!

 

[CFI A&P]

Nice job with the evacuation though... 184 passengers out in 45 seconds with no major injuries.

So.. all aircraft are required to be evacuated in 90 seconds; what do you do when you have elderly and people requiring wheelchairs.. especially straight-backs??
[/QUOTE]

That’s up to the probate courts.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

There will be lots of miraculous healing when the time comes to evacuate!

Or else they're getting tossed down the slide. Orthopedic injuries are probably preferable to burning/suffocating to death.

 

[MikeD]

Top side we have smoke/fire detectors and mainly rely on depressurization and landing quickly.

After UPS 6, weren’t any cabin/topside fire extinguishing systems installed, if not for the whole cabin, for at least individual bins?