Toxic fumes kill Captain and FO Permanently incapacitated ?

There have not been any reports of this at my company recently. It has been a few years. After speaking with a few mechanics, the consensus is that the problem was with outsourced overhaul of the Packs and ACM's on various aircraft. Almost none of the major airlines do in house component overhaul anymore.

It is all farmed out to the lowest bidder MRO, (maintenance and repair organization). These shops are often off-shore in South America or some other third world area with low labor rates. Oversight is minimal and some of these shops are good and some are not.

If the seals on an overhauled unit are not installed correctly or the unit is not assembled correctly or the tolerances are at the minimal acceptable level it is possible that toxic fumes can get into the air-conditioning system. I do know that the company has changed vendors on air-conditioning components.

This is not a hoax, it's real. I know someone who was grounded for almost 9 months due to exposure to toxic fumes.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-cabin-crew-raise-fears-flight-poisoning.html

http://aerotoxic.org/

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...irliner-cabins-ignored-by-authorities-223448/

http://www.toxiccabinair.com/
 
z987k said:
I assumed that you were typed in the airplane, commenting how on the Gulstream(s) it's 100% fresh air. It would be weird for a typed pilot not to know their bleed and environmental systems.
Click to expand...

Ok, no I'm not but I remember seeing this in their ads as a big selling point...


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 
Stone Cold said:
I will give you a clue, there are no compressors, at least on the 450/550. It sure does say bleed air on the overhead with PACKS, so not sure where the 100% fresh air comes from in normal operations...
Click to expand...

The G550 is described as using 100% fresh air, I just looked it up on their website... I had an ex girlfriend who flies a G550 and she commented on how pleasant it felt, even at FL510, these things have a huge delta PSI and maintain like 4500ft cabin altitude even at FL510...


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 
Pépé le Pilot said:
The G550 is described as using 100% fresh air, I just looked it up on their website... I had an ex girlfriend who flies a G550 and she commented on how pleasant it felt, even at FL510, these things have a huge delta PSI and maintain like 4500ft cabin altitude even at FL510...


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Read between the lines. Yes, it's "100% fresh air". IE not recycled. In smaller aircraft the cabin air isn't recycled; step up to a larger airliner and at least on the Airbus it's recirculated somewhat.
 
wheelsup said:
Read between the lines. Yes, it's "100% fresh air". IE not recycled. In smaller aircraft the cabin air isn't recycled; step up to a larger airliner and at least on the Airbus it's recirculated somewhat.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I thought it wasn't bled from the engines but more à la 787...


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 
knot4u said:
I don't like the idea of using bleed air, the only plane that I'm aware of that separates the pressurization from the engines is the 787, electric compressors pump up the cabin.
Click to expand...
There is some strong suggestions that Boeing switched to that design due to liability issues. This issue is a huge one and could completely bankrupt all of the worlds airlines, the manufacturers, everyone overnight.

After US Airways had these "cabin odor" events, you know what they did? They switched the oil they used to a odor-less one.

There is a Duke doctor that did an autopsy on the gentleman from BA. It's a fairly good ready, if you can find it. It's been a couple years since I've looked this stuff up.

The biggest issue they are finding is these events don't effect everyone the same way. Something like 5% of the population will have long-term damage to exposure.

I flew with one of the FAs from that Airways "event". She takes about 30 pills a day. Yes, she's 'normal' to talk to, ie not crazy, but has tremendous health issues because of it.

There should be a sensor in the bleed air intake that detects these fumes and instantly shuts off the bleed air. That would be a fairly easy fix. The problem is, admitting it's an issue now opens up the airlines and Boeing/Airbus to substantial liability. It's just easier to pretend it doesn't exist.
 
Pépé le Pilot said:
The G550 is described as using 100% fresh air, I just looked it up on their website... I had an ex girlfriend who flies a G550 and she commented on how pleasant it felt, even at FL510, these things have a huge delta PSI and maintain like 4500ft cabin altitude even at FL510...


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
Click to expand...
There is a huge difference between a low cabin altitude being refreshing and bringing in true fresh air. Look this site over...the 450 and 550 use basically the same type of bleed system, just with different engines at different pick-up points off of the engines. Specifically look at the section "air flow into the pressure vessel". That is not true fresh air, but a bleed system off the engine. I am GV typed, and have differences training for the 550. The 450 is my daily ride. I don't remember offhand what the 550 is but the 450 maintains a cabin altitude of 6000' at FL450. Edit: just looked it up and the 550 is also 6000' cabin altitude at FL510.

What people are talking about with true fresh air is air that doesn't go through the engine in any way to get to the cabin. Going through the engine is where all the problems are coming from.
http://code7700.com/g450_ecs.html
 
Stone Cold said:
There is a huge difference between a low cabin altitude being refreshing and bringing in true fresh air. Look this site over...the 450 and 550 use basically the same type of bleed system, just with different engines at different pick-up points off of the engines. Specifically look at the section "air flow into the pressure vessel". That is not true fresh air, but a bleed system off the engine. I am GV typed, and have differences training for the 550. The 450 is my daily ride. I don't remember offhand what the 550 is but the 450 maintains a cabin altitude of 6000' at FL450. Edit: just looked it up and the 550 is also 6000' cabin altitude at FL510.

What people are talking about with true fresh air is air that doesn't go through the engine in any way to get to the cabin. Going through the engine is where all the problems are coming from.
http://code7700.com/g450_ecs.html
Click to expand...

373b3513c2c4123c6767e506960d0efe.jpg




Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 
wheelsup said:
There is some strong suggestions that Boeing switched to that design due to liability issues. This issue is a huge one and could completely bankrupt all of the worlds airlines, the manufacturers, everyone overnight.

After US Airways had these "cabin odor" events, you know what they did? They switched the oil they used to a odor-less one.

There is a Duke doctor that did an autopsy on the gentleman from BA. It's a fairly good ready, if you can find it. It's been a couple years since I've looked this stuff up.

The biggest issue they are finding is these events don't effect everyone the same way. Something like 5% of the population will have long-term damage to exposure.

I flew with one of the FAs from that Airways "event". She takes about 30 pills a day. Yes, she's 'normal' to talk to, ie not crazy, but has tremendous health issues because of it.

There should be a sensor in the bleed air intake that detects these fumes and instantly shuts off the bleed air. That would be a fairly easy fix. The problem is, admitting it's an issue now opens up the airlines and Boeing/Airbus to substantial liability. It's just easier to pretend it doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Want to make sure @Hacker15e sees this.
 
Stone Cold said:
What is the point of this picture? Just curious...I know what the ECS page in the 1/6 format on PFD 3 looks like... are you trying to say something about the cabin altitude? They were at FL430.
Click to expand...

Disregard, the Tapatalk app is annoying. I'll reply from my computer.
No need to be condescendant either, on a side note.

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 
Pépé le Pilot said:
Disregard, the Tapatalk app is annoying. I'll reply from my computer.
No need to be condescendant either, on a side note.

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Yeah, I hope my posts aren't coming across in a bad or rude way, but I am trying to clear up some misconceptions about the airplane I fly. It is definitely a typical bleed air system used in most jets, and applicable to the topic at hand.
 
Pépé le Pilot said:
Not too shabby !


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I didn't see this before I replied, sorry...
Pépé le Pilot said:
Disregard, the Tapatalk app is annoying. I'll reply from my computer.
No need to be condescendant either, on a side note.

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I am definitely not trying to be condescending, and apologize if it comes across that way. You were putting out as fact a fallacy about the airplane I fly, and I was just trying to clear up any misconceptions. The picture threw me for a loop, as I genuinely didn't understand the point of it, and missed the note below it, as pointed out above.

The Gulfstream airplanes are very reliable, and I am very happy to be flying them. I just wanted to clear up any misconceptions...:)
 
Stone Cold said:
I didn't see this before I replied, sorry...

I am definitely not trying to be condescending, and apologize if it comes across that way. You were putting out as fact a fallacy about the airplane I fly, and I was just trying to clear up any misconceptions. The picture threw me for a loop, as I genuinely didn't understand the point of it, and missed the note below it, as pointed out above.

The Gulfstream airplanes are very reliable, and I am very happy to be flying them. I just wanted to clear up any misconceptions...:)
Click to expand...

I was the one sidetracking, and incidentally, à flight in a GIVSp, many, many moons ago, gave me the flying bug. I've always had a soft spot for these airplanes, and my ex flying a G550 and a G650 did nothing to alleviate the disease !


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 
Over the past few days, I've noticed several similar incidents appear on AvHearald:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4ac7d6d0&opt=7168
A Jetblue Airbus A320-200, registration N521JB performing flight B6-944 (dep Aug 1st) from Long Beach,CA to Fort Lauderdale,FL (USA), was enroute at FL350 about 140nm west of Oklahoma City,OK (USA) when the crew decided to divert to Oklahoma City reporting an unknown odour on board caused about 20-25 passengers to suffer from breathing difficulties. The aircraft landed safely on Oklahoma's runway 17R about 25 minutes later. Emergency services including 8 ambulances awaited the aircraft, paramedics treated a number of passengers at the airport administering oxygen to them, an unknown number of passengers were taken to hospitals.
Click to expand...

http://avherald.com/h?article=4ac19640&opt=7168
A TuiFly Boeing 737-800, registration D-ATUN performing flight X3-2985 from Palma Mallorca,SP (Spain) to Stuttgart (Germany), was descending towards Stuttgart when an unsual odour was noticed on board causing two cabin crew to feel unwell. The aircraft continued for a landing on Stuttgart's runway 25. The two flight attendants were taken to a hospital and are still on sick leave (standing Jul 25th).
Click to expand...

http://avherald.com/h?article=4ac10486&opt=7168
An American Airlines Airbus A319-100, registration N9018E performing flight AA-1625 from San Antonio,TX to Miami,FL (USA) with 96 people on board, was in flight when four passengers began to complain about an odour and resulting headache. The aircraft continued to Miami for a safe landing about 2.5 hours after departure from San Antonio.

Miami Dade Police reported only 4 passengers reported feeling sick (headache) due to a bad odour on board. 2 of them were taken to a Miami university hospital.
Click to expand...

http://avherald.com/h?article=4acd8c79&opt=7168
A Jetblue Airbus A320-200, registration N547JB performing flight B6-19 from Boston,MA to San Diego,CA (USA) with 126 passengers, was enroute at FL340 about 60nm northwest of Buffalo,NY (USA) when a number cabin crew reported feeling ill complaining about dizziness and headache, at the same passengers reported fumes/unusual odour in the cabin. The flight crew advised ATC cabin crew reported an odour from the aft galley and decided to turn around and divert to Buffalo where the aircraft landed safely about 30 minutes later. Three people were taken to a hospital, a number of passengers were medically assessed at the airport however no passenger was taken to a hospital.
Click to expand...

These are popping up more and more frequently, how is this not a bigger deal in the aviation world?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top