Gulfstream/PFJ/ATP

[N826AW]

That surreal fellow is probably wondering why he is out of a paying job while guys at the airline across the state line are stroking checks for $25k to do what he did for 50% of the pay. Just sayin.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

35% actually, or if you consider that he was close to year 2 pay 29%.


He's also probably a little miffed that they're doing this while union pilots are out of work at the same airline. You'd think the Teamsters would break a few kneecaps or something, I think thats what they do.

 

[Malko]

Thanks for the welcome!

Have you noticed what this surreal fellow is saying about one of your advertisers?

Have you investigated as to whether or not his accusations are true. Is one of your advertisers really attempting to mislead people or is this guy jumping to conclusions?

It appears to me that he made no effort to ascertain the facts but instead immediately launched into attack mode.

It appears a discrepancy existed between a print ad and a web page, as to whether or not the school was VA approved. Hardly a reason to believe someone was being mislead.

Seems to me this guy jumped to a conclusion without spending much time trying to figure out what was going on.

Pretty sure if you looked through his posts you'd find a clear history of building up Falcon while tearing down ATP.

Is this the type of behavior you'd like to see from everyone here?

I also have to wonder why an airline pilot with no pony in the race would be crosschecking ATPs print ads to their website within days of the add hitting.

I'm wondering if this type of behavior is acceptable here? Is it cool for me to enter the forums of other schools and make similar accusations?

Kind of like wondering why a user would troll around look at a particular users posts when he has no pony in the race.

If you have been to the other schools and can offer up facts with experiences then go ahead and post. If the only reason you are posting is to 'make accusations' then do everyone a favor and and refrain from it.

It appears to me that you have no idea what goes into accepting advertisers here at JC. It's not like someone throws Doug some dough and they are in. It is much more in-depth than that.

 

[MikeOH58]

He's also probably a little miffed that they're doing this while union pilots are out of work at the same airline. You'd think the Teamsters would break a few kneecaps or something, I think thats what they do.

wait a second....gulfstream airlines is union?

 

[wjmiller3]

Thanks for the welcome!

Have you noticed what this surreal fellow is saying about one of your advertisers?

Have you investigated as to whether or not his accusations are true. Is one of your advertisers really attempting to mislead people or is this guy jumping to conclusions?

It appears to me that he made no effort to ascertain the facts but instead immediately launched into attack mode.

It appears a discrepancy existed between a print ad and a web page, as to whether or not the school was VA approved. Hardly a reason to believe someone was being mislead.

Seems to me this guy jumped to a conclusion without spending much time trying to figure out what was going on.

Pretty sure if you looked through his posts you'd find a clear history of building up Falcon while tearing down ATP.

Is this the type of behavior you'd like to see from everyone here?

I also have to wonder why an airline pilot with no pony in the race would be crosschecking ATPs print ads to their website within days of the add hitting.

I'm wondering if this type of behavior is acceptable here? Is it cool for me to enter the forums of other schools and make similar accusations?

How old are you? (serious question)

 

[surreal1221]

Thanks for the welcome!

Have you noticed what this surreal fellow is saying about one of your advertisers?

Have you investigated as to whether or not his accusations are true. Is one of your advertisers really attempting to mislead people or is this guy jumping to conclusions?

It appears to me that he made no effort to ascertain the facts but instead immediately launched into attack mode.

It appears a discrepancy existed between a print ad and a web page, as to whether or not the school was VA approved. Hardly a reason to believe someone was being mislead.

Seems to me this guy jumped to a conclusion without spending much time trying to figure out what was going on.

Pretty sure if you looked through his posts you'd find a clear history of building up Falcon while tearing down ATP.

Is this the type of behavior you'd like to see from everyone here?

I also have to wonder why an airline pilot with no pony in the race would be crosschecking ATPs print ads to their website within days of the add hitting.

I'm wondering if this type of behavior is acceptable here? Is it cool for me to enter the forums of other schools and make similar accusations?

LOL - This just keeps getting better.

As I have already said, the issues have been resolved and ATP is now offering honest VA Approved 141 courses, as opposed to the situation(s) that arose many months ago.

This airline pilot, is a veteran who utilized VA Approved educational benefits to pay for a portion of his flight training. I won't lie and say my experience with flight schools and the VA have been 100% satisfactory. Because of my own trials and tribulations with the VA educational system and the amazing rush to grab a share of the market I wasn't going to sit back and let obvious false advertising exist.

Also, I wasn't cross checking print ads and their website. I was informed of the marketing discrepancy and then sent the data to the appropriate officials for clarification. Clarification and correction was provided, and the issue is resolved.

If you like dealing with businesses who mislead potential customers, some of who may be veterans, then so be it. That's between yourself and your conscience.

That surreal fellow is probably wondering why he is out of a paying job while guys at the airline across the state line are stroking checks for $25k to do what he did for 50% of the pay. Just sayin.

Sadly we're realizing that people don't really give much credence to maintaining professional standards. Sad, but what'cha gonna' do.

35% actually, or if you consider that he was close to year 2 pay 29%.

He's also probably a little miffed that they're doing this while union pilots are out of work at the same airline. You'd think the Teamsters would break a few kneecaps or something, I think thats what they do.

You stud.

It's only numbers, who cares.

Nevertheless, I'm very surprised the IBT is sitting idle. But, then again, it is the IBT. The catch-all union representing many industries. Who are we to think that they would understand what is going on?

 

[Fly_Unity]

I used to be a ATP fan (back when it was considered to be one of the cheapest school out for what you got) and I went there several years ago. I would NEVER reremend it to anyone anymore. But thats just me

 

[deadstick]

Nevertheless, I'm very surprised the IBT is sitting idle. But, then again, it is the IBT. The catch-all union representing many industries. Who are we to think that they would understand what is going on?

Well, from what I've been reading, there isn't anything the IBT CAN do. Apparently GIA/GTA isn't doing anything that is contrary to the terms. I can't believe this was agreed to in the first place, but looking at the past, I can't imagine GIA would have agreed to anything less -- GTA is part of their bottom line and the "intereship" is a marketing tool. This is why the "cure" comes from the other part of the equation: the students. They are the ones dropping $30k each and GTA is more than glad to take it. The way GIA's plan seems to be designed is that NOBODY will be recalled until they put more planes on the line, or people stop paying GTA to sit in the right seat.

 

[BroncsRule]

What it boils down to is how would you feel if someone with no experience was willing to pay the company you work for $25,000 to do your job for free?

If you don't have a problem with that then this discussion wont mean anything to you.

That's it? I take the time to register and come on here to ask a simple question and I get rhetoric and a dismissal? I had already read that drivel ten times before I asked my question, and if you don't mind I will decide what is meaningful for myself.

I was flying when Gulfstream started doing whatever it is that offends you so, a LOT of airlines were doing the same thing. A lot of senior guys at Comair and lots of other airlines started out the same way.

The seats that are filled by "interns" or whatever they are called never were available to the GIA line pilots. You are comparing apples and oranges. What GIA does would never fly at a regular airline, so there is no need for all this angst.

Why would you care if some guy wants to pay money to get some flight time in his logbook? How does that hurt any one? Like all of us here, I have spent thousands of dollars buying time in various airplanes.

 

[Clocks]

That's it? I take the time to register and come on here to ask a simple question and I get rhetoric and a dismissal? I had already read that drivel ten times before I asked my question, and if you don't mind I will decide what is meaningful for myself.

I was flying when Gulfstream started doing whatever it is that offends you so, a LOT of airlines were doing the same thing. A lot of senior guys at Comair and lots of other airlines started out the same way.

The seats that are filled by "interns" or whatever they are called never were available to the GIA line pilots. You are comparing apples and oranges. What GIA does would never fly at a regular airline, so there is no need for all this angst.

Why would you care if some guy wants to pay money to get some flight time in his logbook? How does that hurt any one? Like all of us here, I have spent thousands of dollars buying time in various airplanes.

Maybe next time don't take the time to post.

 

[MikeOH58]

Why would you care if some guy wants to pay money to get some flight time in his logbook? How does that hurt any one? Like all of us here, I have spent thousands of dollars buying time in various airplanes.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[surreal1221]

Well, from what I've been reading, there isn't anything the IBT CAN do. Apparently GIA/GTA isn't doing anything that is contrary to the terms. I can't believe this was agreed to in the first place, but looking at the past, I can't imagine GIA would have agreed to anything less -- GTA is part of their bottom line and the "intereship" is a marketing tool. This is why the "cure" comes from the other part of the equation: the students. They are the ones dropping $30k each and GTA is more than glad to take it. The way GIA's plan seems to be designed is that NOBODY will be recalled until they put more planes on the line, or people stop paying GTA to sit in the right seat.

Fair enough.

I'd love to take a look at that CBA though. Especially the scope section.

 

[BroncsRule]

Maybe next time don't take the time to post.

Snappy comeback. You really don't have anything rational to add do you? I guess this forum provides these cute little emoticons for people who can't really say anything that makes sense or is defensible.

Maybe next time you just use the cute pictures.

You are reacting to someone's attempt at blurring the line between paying for a job and paying for training.

 

[BroncsRule]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

See prior post. I rest my case.

 

[Clocks]

Snappy comeback. You really don't have anything rational to add do you? I guess this forum provides these cute little emoticons for people who can't really say anything that makes sense or is defensible.

Maybe next time you just use the cute pictures.

You are reacting to someone's attempt at blurring the line between paying for a job and paying for training.

I hope you remember to keep switching your accounts. It would be embarrassing if you responded to your own post moleman.

 

[moleman]

LOL - This just keeps getting better.

As I have already said, the issues have been resolved and ATP is now offering honest VA Approved 141 courses, as opposed to the situation(s) that arose many months ago.

THE ISSUE IS NOT RESOLVED.

Please provide your proof that ATP was misleading and being dishonest.

Please describe exactly what the issue was. You keep saying there was an issue and it was resolved, but fail to explain what exactly ATP was doing to mislead veterans.

What exactly was the situation?

 

[moleman]

Kind of like wondering why a user would troll around look at a particular users posts when he has no pony in the race.

I have never stated that I do not have a pony in the race. Nor have I gone into the forums of your advertisers and made unfounded accusations.

If you have been to the other schools and can offer up facts with experiences then go ahead and post. If the only reason you are posting is to 'make accusations' then do everyone a favor and and refrain from it.

When someone makes accusations about one of your advertisers misleading potential students doesn't jetcareers have some responsibility to determine if the accusations are true?

If the accusations turn out to be false and baseless then perhaps there should be some ramifications for the poster. In this case the poster has demonstrated a clear historical bias against the advertiser and for a competitor.

It appears to me that you have no idea what goes into accepting advertisers here at JC. It's not like someone throws Doug some dough and they are in. It is much more in-depth than that.

I've been lurking here long enough to know. I have respect for all you guys and gals and for the work that you do. However I think the discourse in this section has been allowed to deteriorate to a level that renders it useless.

It is apparent to me that a significant portion of the negative posts toward ATP come from folks that have an interest in ATP being perceived negatively.(i.e. people working for FBOs).

I can help clean it up or continue with the scorched earth, don't make no nevermind to me. Just let me know which way to go.

 

[juxtapilot]

THE ISSUE IS NOT RESOLVED.

Please provide your proof that ATP was misleading and being dishonest.

Please describe exactly what the issue was. You keep saying there was an issue and it was resolved, but fail to explain what exactly ATP was doing to mislead veterans.

What exactly was the situation?

None of your business since he's taken care of it. so in a sense...

THE ISSUE IS RESOLVED

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

wait a second....gulfstream airlines is union?

Yep. Teamsters.

Fair enough.

I'd love to take a look at that CBA though. Especially the scope section.

The scope section has nothing interesting. The GIA PFT program is covered by a side-letter that basically allows GIA to do whatever the hell they want with the PFTers. It's absolutely disgusting that the IBT lets them get away with this crap. This should be a strike issue, but they've allowed two contract to get signed with a special allowance for the PFT program.

 

[juxtapilot]

Okay, read the whole thing and seriously wonder about you. <<edited to be more open to poster's ideas or something...>>

When someone makes accusations about one of your advertisers misleading potential students doesn't jetcareers have some responsibility to determine if the accusations are true?

Wow... what world are you living in?

If the accusations turn out to be false and baseless then perhaps there should be some ramifications for the poster. In this case the poster has demonstrated a clear historical bias against the advertiser and for a competitor.

You'd be the guy who would call the FAA if you saw me taxing just a little faster than a "brisk walk" in hopes that I'd get violated wouldnt you now.

I've been lurking here long enough to know. I have respect for all you guys and gals and for the work that you do. However I think the discourse in this section has been allowed to deteriorate to a level that renders it useless.

Too many big words renders this post utterly useless.

It is apparent to me that a significant portion of the negative posts toward ATP come from folks that have an interest in ATP being perceived negatively.(i.e. people working for FBOs).

No kidding? Negative posts toward ATP come from people who have a negative perception of ATP. That's deep.

I can help clean it up or continue with the scorched earth, don't make no nevermind to me. Just let me know which way to go.

I'm sure you're cool in real life, but here on the internet you sound silly.

Just sayin'.