Gulfstream/PFJ/ATP

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DE727UPS

DE727UPS

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http://www.atpflightschool.com/airline_training_programs/gulfstream_first_officer_program.html

"ATP and Gulfstream have developed a comprehensive Airline Training Program that combines ATP’s Airline Career Pilot Program training with a Beech 1900 SIC Type Rating and an airline first officer internship program. Career-minded students like you will save time and money with this combined training and internship curriculum.

You will gain valuable 121 airline experience with Gulfstream International Airlines after achieving your certification at ATP...."

I was shocked to hear of ATP and Gulfstream joining forces. I have never been a fan of ATP's 90 day program for ad nasuem reasons. I won't bore you with that. But this sort of marketing agreement between ATP and a PFJ airline is really something new. It's a new attack on our career that is already being set back by age 65, the ATA, and the current economy.

Is ATP supporting/marketing/profiting from, buying your way into this industry by paying for a job? It certainly seems so.....
 
Program - $75,000

Fees - $2,500

But I get paid $8/hr as a FO with Gulfstream

If you want to add your instructor licenses, you'll need to add another $3,500.

Where do I sign up? :banghead:
 
Amazing. Truly amazing there are people stupid enough for them to even consider creating this program. In this new era of tight credit, it will be interesting to see how many could even financially qualify for this.
 
Wow, that is no good. I went to ATP but I had my reasons (not to get into the right seat of an RJ upon graduation! rather it was part of a career change), but this program can't be good. They make it sound like instructing is a waste of time. Plus....if Gulfstream has people furloughed....doesn't that make these students taking those jobs for $8 an hour (or at all) scabs? Just a thought....
 
GlenA said:
Wow, that is no good. I went to ATP but I had my reasons (not to get into the right seat of an RJ upon graduation! rather it was part of a career change), but this program can't be good. They make it sound like instructing is a waste of time. Plus....if Gulfstream has people furloughed....doesn't that make these students taking those jobs for $8 an hour (or at all) scabs? Just a thought....
Click to expand...
If there is no picket line, and no strike, then by definition, there are no scabs. You may call them any other variety of words, but that specific 4 letter "S" word is reserved for very specific circumstances.
 
So Gulfstream has people on furlough but they will take the SIC program students? thats horrible! I bet you get treated great as SIC programmer in ops, or possibly even in the flight deck by the capt.
 
Well, wouldn't it stand to reason that if this type of thing is something those furloughed FOs would be outraged about they wouldn't have been working at gulfstream anyways? You PFJ, then someone undercuts you as an intern PFJ? I wonder if the $8/hour "intern pilots" will be upset when someone comes in and does it for free? Tough luck.

On the topic of the program...anyone with an IQ above 5 and a calculator is going to find out this is a ticket to bankruptcy unless they have a sugar mama.

$75k in debt and not working for 8 months (60 day PPL + 90 day program + gulfstream training), then you work a few months at gulfstream for a toal net income of $2000 while paying your own living expenses, then you get sent home with 505 hours in your logbook which just about anyone will tell you a year from now IF the airlines are hiring again isn't even going to get your app looked at, so you get to start looking for a CFI gig. In that time you've also accumulated about $5000 in interest on your debt, and your minimum payments are around $800/m for the next 20 years (if they even let you pay back for that long), and you don't have a degree.
 
You can't even go CFI after that...ATP gives you a break on the CFI class after the inter time. So 500 hours and no means to get a job...sign me up!!

Certificates
Private Pilot
Multi, Single & Instrument
Commercial Pilot
Multi, Single & Instrument $49,995 discounted price

This discounted variation of the Airline Career Pilot Program differs from the standard Airline Career Pilot Program by excluding CFI Certificates and including cross-country experience of 60 hours single-engine (no multi-engine cross-country).
 
bap327 said:
You can't even go CFI after that...ATP gives you a break on the CFI class after the inter time. So 500 hours and no means to get a job...sign me up!!

Certificates
Private Pilot
Multi, Single & Instrument
Commercial Pilot
Multi, Single & Instrument $49,995 discounted price

This discounted variation of the Airline Career Pilot Program differs from the standard Airline Career Pilot Program by excluding CFI Certificates and including cross-country experience of 60 hours single-engine (no multi-engine cross-country).
Click to expand...
wow I didnt even see that...

Jesus what a scam
 
. . .or maybe they are more optimistic/visionary about the upturn in the aviation market than what others see.

After all, it can't hurt them.
 
If my company laid me off then started selling my job I'd be at the front door burning down the joint.

Couple questions, Gulfstream does a lot of codeshare flying for CO in Florida. Has the CAL MEC ever done or said anything about the PFJ scheme there?
 
I personally wouldnt do it, but:

1. It seems to be another way to get financing to train

2. and you get 250 turbine time with 121 experience (to go with your debt of course)


How is it paying for a job? It looks like you pay for the 1900 training then work for 8$/ hour for 250 hours. Then you are where everyone else is- waiting for things to pick up.

Serious question here to those who fly 121- is 250 Turbine 121 exp better than 250 dual given when trying to get hired? I dont know.
 
Gulfstream sells 250 turbine hours time for $30K ($25K under this new offer). When has 250 turbine hours ever influenced regional airline hiring? Even before the 350-500 hour hiring days of 2007-2008, one could cut hourly hiring minimums by instructing to 500-750 hours and then taking ATP's regional jet (bridge?) course for what, $2k? Accomplish that, and ALL regionals (Skywest included) were within grasp.

PFJ arguments aside (but not ignored), would 250 turbine hours really get you an advantage in regional airline hiring, instead of just doing 250 hours of PAID instruction and taking a RJ prep course like ATP's?

I'm not coming close to understanding the logic of this, much less the other issues associated with it.
 
blee256 said:
So Gulfstream has people on furlough but they will take the SIC program students? thats horrible! I bet you get treated great as SIC programmer in ops, or possibly even in the flight deck by the capt.
Click to expand...

I am gonna guess that the vast majority of those furloughed peeps were GTA grads themselves. They cannot hate what they are themselves.
 
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