First Day

[dakovich]

turns out none of the airlines that were present at the Airline Committee thing spoke to the students. the day they were going to speak was the same day we had that Huey come in for the TV special. i spoke with the person who set up the meeting and got a little bit of info, not much that isn't already known by everyone in the aviation communtiy though.

highlights were that the airlines were pretty impressed with the ACE simulator, and the program itself. they pretty much said the ACE program on a resume and a good referal from the school will lower minimums for those who look to interview with "x" airline. guess they said that there are a million pilots all with the near same qualifications, but that the ACE program makes an applicant stand out more in the crowd. other than that, the typical hiring you've seen in the regional market lately continues from what i gathered. big thing was that we have 7 people up for interviews this week and everyone is holding their breath to see what comes of those 7. not a whole lot else was said about the airline meetings, wish i had more but the students never got a forum with the airlines.

 

[dakovich]

had my multi commercial check today and passed it !!!

had almost a week to study for it and i felt pretty good through the whole exam. multi comm. add on flight doesn't really involve a whole lot, but i got some great tips from the DPE during the flight and learned alot. so i'm finally done with the pre-CFI ratings and i'm off to Buffalo in the morning. i'll be home for almost a month to deal with some family things and i'm also looking forward to taking a break. been going constantly since feb. and all i could think about lately is getting out of this state. for a time there flying just wasn't fun....but i got over that pretty quick with the commercial ratings. commerical was pretty fun, and i really enjoyed doing all the new manuevers. i managed to make it through the pre-CFI ratings with only one "pink" slip, and at the moment i would come up being just about at $60k when finished with all the ratings and ACE. when i'm home i'm going to audit my logbook and also audit my account to see how, when and where my money was spent for each individual rating. i'm also going to try and take a couple flights while i'm back home and maybe experience some icing conditions...its cold back home! alright, i'll get back to posting when i can and let ya'll know how my log audit goes.

 

[FLDiver]

Dak,
First of all, CONGRATS on passing your ride !!!! Good Job !!!! Second, are you allowed, under your Pan Am contract, to fly anyone elses aircraft? I thought you had to have expressed written consent from the Chief to fly a Non-Pan Am A/C as long as you were a registered student at Pan Am. I could be wrong about this but I think I remember seeing it written in some BS clause in the contract. But then again, what they don't know won't hurt them (unless they audit your logbook). Enjoy your vacation.

 

[Snow]

Hey dak, how hard is it to get time off? because I was thinking of signing up for the courses individually incase I wanted a break in between or somthing.

 

[JoeBlow]

You can't request days off. Whatever days off your instructor has, you will have. You can get up to a 90 day leave of absence if you have a legit excuse and you can get a week off as well, but you can only get these days off one time within a year. Essentially your their little Bitch! If you can pay as you go, do so. That way you have control of your money, not them. They will not give you a specific day off even if it would be religious or you have to pick your kid up somewhere at a specific time on a specific day. They want your money on that day and everyday.

 

[FLDiver]

Snow,
The last time I checked, Pan Am will not let you sign up for classes individually....They want to make sure they suck as much money out of your account as they can, and giving it to them all at once makes it soooo much easier for them to do. Try calling Key Bank or whom ever your are getting the loan through, see if they will send all of the money to you instead of them. That way at least YOU have control of the money and not them. Just an idea.

 

[Snow]

FLD, that sounds like and interesting idea, I'll have to check that out, I'm going to apply to key loan before I apply to any flight schools.

As for paying indivdually, aparently you can only you get charged 5% extra on plane rental. So if you did the whole thing that way that's 350hrs x roughly $10 extra per hour so that's an extra $3500-4000 if you go the pay sperately route. So I might pay seperatly for private and if I like it, sign the death warrent for the rest of my stay <grin>

PS sorry to be discussing this in your forum Dak!

 

[dakovich]

discuss whatevers on your mind, doesn't bother me one bit. i'm finally back up here in Buffalo, and its pretty cold. its beautiful outside though, leaves are all changing color, perfect sunny days, good food, good canadian beer, good girl, good friends, and its not florida thank god.

as for the whole thing with signing up for only certain courses, i'm not sure what the policy is today, but i do have a few friends that only signed on up to commercial. guess they pay a little more per hour on the planes but they have wayyy more freedom and peace of mind because they didn't have to sign any contracts. i was never a fan of signing binding agrements...but i did and i continue on. just weigh your options, get your inital ratings elswhere to make sure you really want to do this for real before you sign on for the accelerated program....and get some sort of degree, 2 year-4year or whatever.

 

[chunk75]

I'm sorry, but if the contract is THAT bad that you're willing to pay a few more G's to escape it.......

 

[dakovich]

its not so much the contract as it is people discovering that once they begin their training and maybe find its not to their liking that they have no real good alternatives but to take a $2k hit to leave the school. it leaves no incentive for the smart 0 hour students who actually research different schools for them to want to come and try their luck at Panam. "why try my luck starting from scratch at this school if i have to lock myself into an extended contract before i really know what i want?". hence the huge discussion over the contract and the early termination fee. the contract isn't so bad, it just gives you a very large stick to shove in yer poop hole if you decide you want to resign early....it monetarily manipulates a student to want to try and stay even if they don't see things working out for them at the school....and that is a hugly succesful way to conjur up bad publicity for yourself.

 

[dakovich]

sorry its been so long but i've had to deal with some family issues up here in Buffalo. so, i finally audited my account and have the numbers since i began my training at Panam. i also have my logbook hours but they still need to have some corrections made to them so they may look a little out of whack in some places. anyway, heres what i found out:


first, i began at Panam in Feb. 2002 with a grand total of "0" logged hours and one 1/2 hour intro flight at the local FBO. i've completed from my PPL (private pilot license) all the way through my commercial mulit and single engine ratings. i also completed the schools specialty courses of : time building, crew resource managment, and multi-engine route programs. here are the numbers thus far

Total Time: 276.3
PIC: 188.1
Dual: 148.4
Solo: 52.6
Multi-engine: 98.7
Single engine: 179.1
(remeber these are off a little bit, gotta do some corrections)

as for a cost analysis throughotu my training here is the breakdown:

PRIVATE LICENSE:
Hobbs: $ 6566.50
Brief: $ 2851.20
gnd school: $ 900.00
FAA check ride: $ 300.00
writen exam: $70.00
book package: $759.82
misc. books-n- things: $294.57

73.7 hours logged
87.0 hours breif time
25.6 hours ground time

total cost: $11742.09 (that hurts considering i was near the top of the group of guys i was with)

TIME BUILDING
Hobbs: $3132.80
misc books: $77.80

35.2 hours logged all PIC

total cost: $3210.60


INSTRUMENT RATING (this one is complicated, i've got it broken down in two because i had to drop my first instructor and i figured out how much it cost me to unlearn and actually learn what i really need to know....ggrrrrrr!!!!!)

first instructor
Hobbs: $3310.30
Brief: $2217.60
Gnd school: $1080.00
writen exam: $70.00
misc. books: $59.96

45.4 hours logged
69.3 hurs breif
17.9 hours ground

first total : $ 6737.86

second instructor
Hobbs: $1270.60
Brief: $800.00

15.4 hours logged
25.0 brief
5.8 ground

second total : $2070.60
1st + 2nd = grand total of $8808.46


MULTI-ENGINE PRIVATE/INSTRUMENT
Hobbs: $ 4580.20
Brief: $1197.80
Gnd school: $225.00

25.3 hours logged
36.7 brief
9.4 ground

total: $ 6003.00


CREW RESOURCE MANAGMENT
Hobbs: $ 647.20
Brief: $483.00
Gnd school: $135.00

19.8 logged (AST HAWK FTD split cost only paid for 9.9 hours)
13.8 brief
3.9 ground

total : $1265.2


MULTI-ENGINE ROUTE PROGRAM
Hobbs: $6316.90 (all PIC)
32.7 hours ( logged 65.4 using safety pilot method to log PIC hours...highly debated as good/bad practice but its what Panam does)

total : $ 6316.90

COMMERCIAL SINGLE ENGINE
Hobbs: $ 3019.40
Brief: $ 1083.50
writen: $70.00
Gnd school: $630.00

30.1 hours logged
30.1 brief
8.6 ground

total: $ 4802.90

COMMERCIAL MULTI-ENGINE
Hobbs: $1049.80
Brief: $234.5

5.8 hours logged
6.6 brief
1.9 ground


TRAINING TOTAL: $43,433.45
LOAN OVERAGE FOR LIVING EXPENSES: $20,000
GRAND TOTAL: $63,433.45

$80,000 loan - $63,433.45 spent = $16,566.55 remaining to complete ACE, CFI, CFII, MEI

 

[dakovich]

probably should give some more tid-bits as to how my training went so as easier to compare and contrast:


-always have been near top of class
-only failed one FAA check ride : multi private, passed second time (first time just wasn't my day)
-the whole instrument fiasco sucked: five students almost simultaniously dropped the same instructor and had same issues, just so you know i wasn't a complete shlub on that one ( i did learn alot about my instructors love life during each flight lesson ) my second instructor was the man, great instructor, too bad he is now at FSI, he was a great asset to Panam.
-i did drop out of my first instrument ground school, a few of us were still finishing our private license, also put into time-building and told to take the Instrument ground school all at the same time. that scenerio didn't work very well, but the school was cool about rescheduling us into the next ground school...did awesome that time around.

just thought i should mention those bits of info. any questions just ask and i'll let you know what i know.

 

[Snow]

Sounds good dak, keep the reports coming!

Did you say only 37hrs multi on the route program? I thoight it was suposed to be 75-85hrs?

 

[FLDiver]

Dak,
They did the same thing to me with my instrument class. I was barely ready for my PPL stage 2 ride when I was put into the instrument groundschool....what a BIOTCH !!! I was never told that I could refuse to be in that class or I would have droped it like a hot potato and rescheduled for when the time was right for me. It truely made life miserable for me doing the PPL stuff, trying to prepare for stage check 2 and 3 and then the PPL ride and do the instrument ground simulaneously and try to prepare for those stage checks as well. I too got quite an education about my first instructors personal life, although quite interesting, really distracted me.

 

[dakovich]

its a total of 80 hours for the Route program, the hours i posted were the "paid" hours i had. at the school, like many others, they do the dual pilot flights using the safety pilot "cheat" to have both pilots log PIC. so you pay for 40 and get 80. many people debate how legit this practice is but it seems most school do it this way.

 

[dakovich]

about the instrument class...yeah, it sucked but when you're just starting there (PPL & IR) you want to just go with what they tell you and we all just said "ok" and enrolled into the first class. it became evident that we weren't going to get all we could out of the class so they took us out and set us up for the next one. that class went real smooth.

 

[FLDiver]

Yep, I pretty much went with what they told me instead of going with what I thought was best for me. When I questioned it and told them I felt a little lost and confused, they told me that it was normal to feel that way, just keep going. I went alright ....went right out the door !! LOL

 

[dakovich]

well, today i officially disenrolled from Panam. issues back home and finances related to both my training here and whats happening back up north were what really caused me to have to disenroll from the program. i had a lot of good times at the school, and i still like to think i recieved some very good instruction while i attended. yes, there were some things i wasn't so happy with but for the most part it went ok. i'll be finishing out my instructor ratings back in Buffalo, and at the moment trying to secure a job at the local UPS to try and get some money saved up and some bennies too...hope that works out ok. so i hope i'll be doing that and the school i'm going to go to 95% assured me of a job after finishing, as well another local school said they'd hire me on part time. so we'll see where that all leads me to. i'll try and keep posting on and about what i've experienced at Panam, but for the most part i think i'll have to start a new thread somewhere in another forum topic...probably FBO topic since thats the way i'll be finishing up. pretty good school with associations with the local community college to train for its Pro. Pilot program, guaranteed students! alrighty, hope i helped out a little by posting my experiences, i know so many of you have helped me by doing the same. i personally appreciate being allowed the chance to do so because of this great site that Doug has set up.

 

[FLDiver]

DAK !!!!! WTF ????? I surely did not see this coming. Man, I am sorry. As much as I hate Pan Am, I always pull for those who are already there. Although I do try to discourage those who would want to go there. PM me if you want to discuss any details, I will gladly try to help you as much as I can. I know you will do well at an FBO ...and hey...the FBO just might put the fun back into flying. Good luck and keep posting.

 

[Snow]

Well too bad you have to leave Dak, your postings have been most interesting and I was hoping you'd make it all the way through so you we all could see the whole experence. But hey at least your still in flying and are still finishing your ratings, best of luck at the new school. I guess when you get to the FBO you'll really be able to compair how good your training at Pan Am was.