Can ATC do this?

clrd4takeoff

clrd4takeoff

New Member
Hello fellow aviators,

I filed a round robin (IFR) training flight this morning from FPR (Ft. Pierce) to VRB (Vero Beach). We shot the NDB to 29L at Vero and the controller told us to either land full stop at Vero or return to Ft. Pierce VFR. He said that he was too busy! Can he do this as per regulations? I worked hard to earn the instrument ticket and this guy is telling me that I can't use it. What gives? I would like your $.02

Sincerely,

T Leverett
 
I don't know whether he "can" or "cannot" legally but I don't think its that cut and dried. I'd say he can do whatever he needs to to keep things running smoothly.

Once Miami Center hands you off to VRB tower, you would probably have to be "re-released" to Miami Center after your approach if you were to go IFR back to FPR.

IIRC, its the flight data controller (clearance) at VRB who must get your release from Miami Center. Chances are, either he was too busy to get Miami on the landline, or MIA Ctr. wouldn't accept you because they were too busy at the moment. They were probably just trying to buy themselves some time by telling you to do a full stop.

Chill out, its no biggie. Theres tons of training going on down there, if everyone doesn't work together, it becomes a royal cluster•.
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As I understand it, it would depend on what exactly you did. If you just asked for 'multiple IFR practice approaches', then he will accomodate you if able. If he's busy, then it's too bad. Same applies for VFR traffic advisories - they're on a 'when able' basis. If, however, you actually filed an IFR flight plan and recieved your clearance, then he needs a darn good reason to terminate your IFR flight plan without your requesting it.
 
Could ATC cancel your IFR plan without your consent if you hadn't filed for practice approaches? If you go missed, you go missed. They don't really have any control over that right? They don't know what conditions might warrant a missed approach.

I can't speak intelligently on this though. I just know it would really suck to get dropped from IFR because they are busy. Isn't that the difference between flight following, and IFR? They have to take you. (I understand the difference when practicing.)

G
 
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I'd say he can do whatever he needs to to keep things running smoothly.

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Safety is the main concern all around. Just as you can do whatever you want when flying to maintain a safe flight, the same goes for them in the name of safety.
 
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Could ATC cancel your IFR plan without your consent if you hadn't filed for practice approaches?

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No, but they can amend your clearance. . .
 
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I can't speak intelligently on this though. I just know it would really suck to get dropped from IFR because they are busy. Isn't that the difference between flight following, and IFR? They have to take you. (I understand the difference when practicing.)

G

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They cannot drop IFR flights
 
I wouldnt spend any time worrying about it, You were obviously not on a business or flight that had to be accomplished IFR. aTC had more pressing things to do and with you doing a roundrobin it was clear that you werent a primary concern. The alternative probably could have been a hold, then you cannceling IFR anyways!
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Theres tons of training going on down there, if everyone doesn't work together, it becomes a royal cluster•.
smile.gif


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Where can I try this royal cluster....
 
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Could ATC cancel your IFR plan without your consent if you hadn't filed for practice approaches? If you go missed, you go missed. They don't really have any control over that right? They don't know what conditions might warrant a missed approach.

I can't speak intelligently on this though. I just know it would really suck to get dropped from IFR because they are busy. Isn't that the difference between flight following, and IFR? They have to take you. (I understand the difference when practicing.)

G

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They cannot cancel your flight plan, but they could deny your release into the next controlling agency's airspace, so even if you have not canceled your flight plan, if they do not have the space for you after you have gone to tower, now you are in the D airspace whose controlling agency is the tower. To leave tower's airspace you would have to be released into TRACON or Center's airspace. If they do not have the space, planes cannot come in. That is why you have to hold for IFR release. it is to work you into the traffic that departure is working. In the midwest(where I'm from you will see times where sectors of Chicago Approach gets so backed up that they will not take anymore arriving traffic from Chicago Center and planes going into the airspace owned by Approach will have to hold outside. That is similar to what was happening in this case only here it was from tower to departure.
 
We were not even handed over to tower at Vero when this took place. We were level at 3,000. The controller that took over 3 minutes later handled us just fine.
 
They cant just drop you when your IFR but they sure can put you in a holding pattern as long as they want. Honestly it sucks but faster aircraft have priority and if they are too busy they can do whatever they need. Since you were doing an approach into the towers airspace they have the right to tell you to land and hold for release back into miami centers airspace. They dont do this too often, only when they are busy. I had one time in SLC where we were flying back from down south IFR and they told us we either have to hold for 45-60 minutes or come in VFR. They cant drop you but they can definately make life miserable if you dont go VFR when they want you to.
 
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I worked hard to earn the instrument ticket and this guy is telling me that I can't use it. What gives?

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This controller has every right to do this. It is common for DAB approach to deny multiple approaches as well. If they are having radar problems or are just too busy, you only get one approach to a full stop. They are not denying you the ability to use your instrument rating. You were able to go from FPR to VRB. If you want to go back IFR all you have to do is stop and file another flight plan.

Control towers do the same thing if they get too busy and you want to do touch and goes. They will tell you that you can either do a full stop or leave their airspace.
 
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