Be careful....

SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
The FAA went woke on their ATC hiring criteria, just like United with their AVIATE nonsense.
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That’s pretty irrelevent honestly though. Yeah there was the one year (2014 I think?) they messed with the biographical questionnaire and a group of managers leaked the test to various POC groups, but that’s just one part of a multi-level hiring/testing routine. It didn’t effect the aptitude nor psychological test. Plus, it has 0 effect on how one performs at the academy or during on the job training. Has absolutely zero to do with any issues happening now. I know you like to see the woke boogeyman everywhere you look though, so if it makes you feel better you just keep on keeping on.
 
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nabbyfan said:
Not trying to excuse what happened there, that’s wild. But landing and departing 33 at BUR happens maybe a few times a year, it’s not normal at all. They’re generally timing departures off 15 there between arrivals on 8. But if they really launched someone w ASH on 1.3 mile final that seems really strange.

There’s def something going on w the FAA though. Like we’ve said before, the results of years and years of overwork and needing to certify anybody that shows up may be rearing its ugly head. If only somebody would actually do something before the holes in the Swiss cheese line up and the inevitable disaster actually happens. Sure seems like we’re coming close.
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If only that same mentality were in play when they booted everybody born 2 days after myself and before from the hiring pool. Good times. It is crazy when I hear stories from friends at different facilities of people doing newsworthy levels of stupid stuff followed up by "so they got promoted to get them off the scope". But that's nothing new, I hear.

Murdoughnut said:
Mark your bingo square folks
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You recall they got sued and admitted that the Biographical Questionaire was aimed at weeding out middle-class straight white males, like myself, for diversity, right? It was full of questions like "did you play 3 or more sports in high school?", "did your parents work more than one job to support you?", "did you walk to school?" etc. I mean, I get it, but it's illegal. I know, it sounds crazy, and I was among those laughing at the "terk er jerbs" crowd at first...until the lawsuit. Google it, Todd didn't make that up. And low and behold, I got invited to take the test the next 4 years in a row when the BQ was gone lol.

NovemberEcho said:
That’s pretty irrelevent honestly though. Yeah there was the one year (2014 I think?) they messed with the biographical questionnaire and a group of managers leaked the test to various POC groups, but that’s just one part of a multi-level hiring/testing routine. It didn’t effect the aptitude nor psychological test. Plus, it has 0 effect on how one performs at the academy or during on the job training. Has absolutely zero to do with any issues happening now. I know you like to see the woke boogeyman everywhere you look though, so if it makes you feel better you just keep on keeping on.
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My apps from 2013-2015 were rejected for BQ failure if I recall, so it was 3 years going. Though for sure the last year was the one that stands out as having a lot of questions that made me go "wtf". I got WQ on the AT-SAT 3 times (2016-2018) and was the first one done each time in rooms of 30-60 people (literally stabbing a 32oz Redbull with your keys and shotgunning it will have that effect o_Oo_Oo_O), so I have to wonder what would have happened if there was no BQ during that time period. It goes beyond the leaked answers seeing as suddenly all my ramp tower and GA pilot friends were potential FAA material and received AT-SAT invites when it was gone. When people who performed well on the AT-SAT multiple times were first kept out by the BQ over and over, something was up. Most people I know who got in over 29 had failed the BQ 2-4 times, out of dozens of people I spoke with who applied during those years, I only know of 4 or 5 who got the AT-SAT invite in the BQ days, and these people checked more boxes on the app than the average applicant (it even gave options for being an airline cs\ramp\ops employee, for example).
 
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ChasenSFO said:
My apps from 2013-2015 were rejected for BQ failure if I recall, so it was 3 years going.
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The first year it was introduced is when it was problem. Out of 28k applicants only 2k passed it. After they revamped it the next year it was more applicable.

And the lawsuit wasn’t about the bio-q actually, although it was mentioned. It was about the FAA ending the CTI hiring bids in favor of the General Public bids and CTI grads and students claiming that they were experienced being passed over for inexperienced people. If the FAA hadn’t switched that up you wouldn’t have even been eligible to apply unless you were a CTI grad or prior ATC experience.
 
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NovemberEcho said:
That’s pretty irrelevent honestly though. Yeah there was the one year (2014 I think?) they messed with the biographical questionnaire and a group of managers leaked the test to various POC groups, but that’s just one part of a multi-level hiring/testing routine. It didn’t effect the aptitude nor psychological test. Plus, it has 0 effect on how one performs at the academy or during on the job training. Has absolutely zero to do with any issues happening now. I know you like to see the woke boogeyman everywhere you look though, so if it makes you feel better you just keep on keeping on.
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Oh yes, affirmative action and quota proponents always claim that it has no impact on qualifications, but simple common sense and reason shows that to be a lie. You can’t exclude entire populations of people in favor of other populations of people based purely on inapplicable criteria and not negatively impact quals. We should always be looking for the best and brightest overall, not just the best and brightest only of a minority population.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Oh yes, affirmative action and quota proponents always claim that it has no impact on qualifications, but simple common sense and reason shows that to be a lie. You can’t exclude entire populations of people in favor of other populations of people based purely on inapplicable criteria and not negatively impact quals. We should always be looking for the best and brightest overall, not just the best and brightest only of a minority population.
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The “forced diversity” aspect lasted for 1 hiring cycle and they screwed it up so badly they revamped the test and invited everyone who failed it to re-take it the next year. And all it changed that 1 year was who was invited to take the skills assessment test. The actual hiring quals were no different, what changed that one year was who they invited to take the skills assessment. No one is offered a job until after the skills assessment test. But if you want to continue talking about something authoritatively which you have absolutely zero experience in, go right ahead.
 
NovemberEcho said:
The “forced diversity” aspect lasted for 1 hiring cycle and they screwed it up so badly they revamped the test and invited everyone who failed it to re-take it the next year. And all it changed that 1 year was who was invited to take the skills assessment test. The actual hiring quals were no different, what changed that one year was who they invited to take the skills assessment. No one is offered a job until after the skills assessment test. But if you want to continue talking about something authoritatively which you have absolutely zero experience in, go right ahead.
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You’re hilarious.
 
NovemberEcho said:
Because your response isn’t accurate or applicable to the reality of what happened. In fact so far off i don’t think you actually read anything I wrote beyond the first sentence.
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I don’t know if you’re just clueless about what your own employer is doing, or if you’re lying, but any claims that the FAA has abandoned a focus on “diversity” hiring can be proven false with a simple Google search.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
I don’t know if you’re just clueless about what your own employer is doing, or if you’re lying, but any claims that the FAA has abandoned a focus on “diversity” hiring can be proven false with a simple Google search.
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If you read it on the internet, it’s got to be true! Read that on the internet……
Bonjour!
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Well, when the source is the FAA itself who is doing the hiring, then yeah. It's true.
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And it’s irrelevent to hiring for ATC. When you apply to ATC, everyone who meets the minimum requirements is invited to take the Air Traffic Skills Assessment Test (ATSA). This is an aptitude test. Depending on your score, you’re put into 2 different pools, one for “well qualified” and one for “qualified”. FAA then sends out offer letters to WQ and then Q (and prior experience hires who gon through a seperatr process) until they hit their hiring goal for the year.

The biographical questionnaire that Chasen was complaining about did have issues the first year it was used. That was fixed the following year and everyone who had applied the year with issues was invited to re-apply even if they had aged out in the time between. They also ended the biographical questionnaire in 2018 because they found success rates were unchanged. It was an attempt to hire better qualified people more likely to certify and lower the average 50% washout rate. Roughly 20-30k people apply each year but the Academy can only handle around 1500/yr. And despite Chasen’s bitterness about it, the simple fact is he aged out because he forgot to apply the last year he was eligible.

Everyone who is selected still has to go to the Academy and pass the same coursework as everyone earlier, and then still go to their facility and train and get certified.

The FAA increasing awareness about the job in minority communities in an effort to increase minority applicants is not “woke” and is not watering down the workforce. The bar to pass the academy and become an OJT trainee has not changed.


The issues with ATC right now is the huge drop in traffic that happened with covid and the FAA insisting we train and certify on available traffic, so people trained and got certified when traffic levels were 50% of what they are normally, not because of diversity.
 
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You keep focusing on that idiotic "biographical questionnaire" (which was racist AF) so that you can avoid the fact that the FAA is focusing on minority hiring. The fact that someone passes minimum standards on a test is not relevant. This is about getting the best and brightest. Not the best and brightest hispanic guy who barely manages to pass the minimum standards while intentionally excluding others who would have performed much better but simply didn't meet the "diversity" goal.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
You keep focusing on that idiotic "biographical questionnaire" (which was racist AF) so that you can avoid the fact that the FAA is focusing on minority hiring. The fact that someone passes minimum standards on a test is not relevant. This is about getting the best and brightest. Not the best and brightest hispanic guy who barely manages to pass the minimum standards while intentionally excluding others who would have performed much better but simply didn't meet the "diversity" goal.
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And you keep ignoring the fact that the only thing that would identify the guy as being Hispanic isn’t even used anymore. But if you want to keep pretending you have any clue how the hiring process for ATC works go ahead.
 
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