B737 Talk

[Minuteman]

My observation has been that different airlines regard flap load relief differently. For some is it an area of operation to be avoided and exists as a protection system to avoid damage. For others it is regarded as an expansion of the operating envelope appropriate for the speed being flown.

(functionally removing Flaps 2 was probably a legacy of the rudder hardover occurrences changing the flap speed schedule faster by 10 knots, where the maneuvering speed would otherwise be too slow before ... which was really only on Classics that were not-yet upgraded with the revised rudder servo valve)

 

[MikeD]

There is quite a bit of “we have always done it this way” on the 737 at Eskimo Airways.

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For example, where I fly; both are valid techniques. Want to go flaps 15 to 25 to 30/40? Cool. Want to go flaps 15 right to 30/40? Cool. Players choice. Both are valid, whichever one the flying pilot calls for, is what will be done.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

For example, where I fly; both are valid techniques. Want to go flaps 15 to 25 to 30/40? Cool. Want to go flaps 15 right to 30/40? Cool. Players choice. Both are valid, whichever one the flying pilot calls for, is what will be done.

Do you only fly the 100 & 200?

 

[Ian_J]

Do you only fly the 100 & 200?

Doesn’t matter… my shop is how he describes it too. All NGs/Max’s.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

For example, where I fly; both are valid techniques. Want to go flaps 15 to 25 to 30/40? Cool. Want to go flaps 15 right to 30/40? Cool. Players choice. Both are valid, whichever one the flying pilot calls for, is what will be done.

You can call for it. I’ll still say here’s flaps 25, and then go to your desired 30/40. Dang it MikeD the profile has flaps 25 as a stand-alone callout
I have yet to have a FO skip the flaps 25 call when going towards 30/40.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Doesn’t matter… my shop is how he describes it too. All NGs/Max’s.

Deltoid? You guys have a climb checklist. Ready for it?

“Altimeters: standard, crosscheck”

Climb checklist complete. Wow. All of 1 item. And your preflight checklist is like 50 items long. Dang guys. Y’all have a pre-bathroom trip checklist?

Meanwhile at our shop, we don’t even have an after landing checklist. It’s just a FO flow.

I like jumpseating on Delta because they are usually great, but when I end up in the FD jumpseat, I get excited for a second because I think we’re about to launch a space shuttle. But then we takeoff in the same clapped out 737 as us, except it took 2x the talk/checklists.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Do you only fly the 100 & 200?

I don’t think there are any -100 still flying?

 

[Ian_J]

Deltoid? You guys have a climb checklist. Ready for it?

“Altimeters: standard, crosscheck”

Climb checklist complete. Wow. All of 1 item. And your preflight checklist is like 50 items long. Dang guys. Y’all have a pre-bathroom trip checklist?

Meanwhile at our shop, we don’t even have an after landing checklist. It’s just a FO flow.

I like jumpseating on Delta because they are usually great, but when I end up in the FD jumpseat, I get excited for a second because I think we’re about to launch a space shuttle. But then we takeoff in the same clapped out 737 as us, except it took 2x the talk/checklists.

No, not American or Delta - the other one. We don’t have a climb or after landing checklist.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Doesn’t matter… my shop is how he describes it too. All NGs/Max’s.

I don’t think there are any -100 still flying?

I think he's stated on here, maybe not in this thread that his shop might have 100 & 200's that he flies. I think his shop also has NG's. But don't think that they have the new hotness, the MAX.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

No, not American or Delta - the other one. We don’t have a climb or after landing checklist.

Ah, nice. Similar procedures. Can’t say I’ve JSed in your 737s yet.

 

[MikeD]

You can call for it. I’ll still say here’s flaps 25, and then go to your desired 30/40. Dang it MikeD the profile has flaps 25 as a stand-alone callout
I have yet to have a FO skip the flaps 25 call when going towards 30/40.

Just interesting that it’s a solid “must do” this particular way. A few pilots where I’m at do the 25, others don’t. It works out both ways just fine.

 

[MikeD]

Do you only fly the 100 & 200?

No -100s fly anymore. Last one was in 2005 in South America. Last US -100 was N708AW, the America West plane that was the Phoenix Suns team plane. It retired in 1996 or 97.

The -200 is finally gone from here. Probably 50 or so still flying worldwide, they are in demand in Canada and such due to their gravel kits they can have for off-field operation. Something the later CFM-equipped 737s can’t do.

Moved from Jurassic to still-old Classic. -500. The main one i fly is an ex-British Airways jet. The “bitching Betty” in it has a distinctly British accent.

OKC is going to miss us.

 

[Minuteman]

The oldest 737-200s still flying appear to be all with various air forces: the Peruvians have two, one built in January 1970 while we were still landing on the moon. India has one built in January 1971.

The USAF has RAT55, a secretive T-43 modified with massive nose & tail radomes, which is seen out at Tonopah and is believed to be used to aerial testing of stealth tech (delivered July 1974). It flew to Ardmore, OK in June.

Then, yeah, Nolinor using gravel-kitted 737s to transport oil workers and more.

(we don't talk about Transair.)

Then a bunch more various governments' transports.

 

[inigo88]

Then, yeah, Nolinor using gravel-kitted 737s to transport oil workers and more.

Just ran across these recently for Nolinor. Pretty cool to see their ops in the Jurassic documented so thoroughly! The first video has a glass cockpit PFD/ND upgrade which was surprising to see on a 737-200.

 

[SurferLucas]

Deltoid? You guys have a climb checklist. Ready for it?

“Altimeters: standard, crosscheck”

Climb checklist complete. Wow. All of 1 item. And your preflight checklist is like 50 items long. Dang guys. Y’all have a pre-bathroom trip checklist?

Meanwhile at our shop, we don’t even have an after landing checklist. It’s just a FO flow.

I like jumpseating on Delta because they are usually great, but when I end up in the FD jumpseat, I get excited for a second because I think we’re about to launch a space shuttle. But then we takeoff in the same clapped out 737 as us, except it took 2x the talk/checklists.

Don't worry, we get paid more to do those extra checklist

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Don't worry, we get paid more to do those extra checklist

As you should. Still too much work

 

[inigo88]

My observation has been that different airlines regard flap load relief differently. For some is it an area of operation to be avoided and exists as a protection system to avoid damage. For others it is regarded as an expansion of the operating envelope appropriate for the speed being flown.

(functionally removing Flaps 2 was probably a legacy of the rudder hardover occurrences changing the flap speed schedule faster by 10 knots, where the maneuvering speed would otherwise be too slow before ... which was really only on Classics that were not-yet upgraded with the revised rudder servo valve)

I did find this:Flaps 2 origin 737? - PPRuNe Forums

No mention of the rudder hard-over accidents, but I kind of suspected the existence of the flaps 2 gate was some legacy niche takeoff setting from the -100/-200 and it sounds like that may indeed be the case. Kind of like an obscure MD Dial-A-Flap setting that doesn’t get a lot of use, but permanently gated. It also sounds like it’s useful for long finals at 180 knots with the gear up, if it isn’t prohibited at your airline.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

For example, where I fly; both are valid techniques. Want to go flaps 15 to 25 to 30/40? Cool. Want to go flaps 15 right to 30/40? Cool. Players choice. Both are valid, whichever one the flying pilot calls for, is what will be done.

Yeah there has been a little bit of movement toward sanity where I work. Apparently things used to be a lot more complex for no value not that long ago.

The flaps 25 call seems to be there just because it can. It's not a valid selection for landing as we can't get performance numbers and there seems to be zero performance change between 25 and 30.

Flaps 15, Flaps 30

or

Flaps 15, Flaps 30, Flaps 40

Those should be the calls since 25 is just a redundant call out for something that is being skipped anyhow.

 

[Jimmy_Norton]

I'm so glad I bid the Airbus

 

[flyinggreasemnky]

I did find this:Flaps 2 origin 737? - PPRuNe Forums

No mention of the rudder hard-over accidents, but I kind of suspected the existence of the flaps 2 gate was some legacy niche takeoff setting from the -100/-200 and it sounds like that may indeed be the case. Kind of like an obscure MD Dial-A-Flap setting that doesn’t get a lot of use, but permanently gated. It also sounds like it’s useful for long finals at 180 knots with the gear up, if it isn’t prohibited at your airline.

The MD-11 Dial-a-flap gets used on every flight.