Attitudes

[fly6785]

I have no respect for a poser like you.

Don't really see why someone who PFT would be a poser... In my opinion if you come to work and do your job and get the people from point A to point B SAFELY who cares how you got there???? I got all of my ratings and everything at a local FBO and I went to GTA 6 years ago and it was the best decision of my life... I went to a regional and flew the RJ with a bunch of guys and not one of them ever had a word to say about what I did... I went to work and did my job... I have no respect for you for calling me a poser because of the route I took to get where I am now... Happy... Making good money... and a nice QOL... Everyone here can go ahead with the bashings because I went to GTA but I know if I were standing face to face with any of you then you wouldn't say a word... and if you did I would have words for you... Now these guys going around Auto Landing an ERJ with 50 + people in the back have every right to be bashed. Mike let me know if you get on a hiring board... I'll fax a resume over

 

[jtrain609]

There's nothing wrong with a forum for newbies. What's wrong is said newbies thinking that they know more than the experienced guys. A "forum for newbies" is a place for newbies to come and get educated from the experienced guys, not a place for them to "school" the experienced guys. The OP should be asking questions, not telling Captains what to do with their jumpseats.

It's the way some people learn.

Check it out, you'd think me and kellwolf hated each other if you saw us when we were living together. We didn't discuss anything, we argued for hours.

Now do I hate the guy? Not even close! I like the guy a lot, actually, and have a ton of personal and professional respect for him. He's a great friend, and it just so happens that we both tend to learn by hashing through things in a very deliberate, long winded manner.

Ask him about me chucking a mouse pad at him sometime. Arguing is just the way some people learn.

 

[DE727UPS]

"I went to GTA but I know if I were standing face to face with any of you then you wouldn't say a word...

I would....

I think GTA stands for Gulfstream Training Academy? Paying for a job is a terrible way to enter this industry. In my book you have Scabs, then Streamers, then everybody else. People who lower the bar of this career for being willing to pay for a job should be cut no slack. Now, if I met a Streamer face to face, I'd try to put it a bit more tactfully and politely, but I'd hardly have "nothing to say".

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Arguing is just the way some people learn.

And if those two people are of similar experience levels, then I see no problem with that. However, when the one starting the argument has virtually no experience and is arguing with people that have lots of experience, I have a big problem with that. That's not a legitimate way to learn. I'm not going to tell him what to do with his bus, because I have no experience with driving busses or dealing with the bussing industry. I expect similar deference from him.

 

[jtrain609]

Todd man,


You've gotta get hip to the idea that some people are going to duke it out with you, you're going to bring up something they didn't think about, they'll say, "Oh...well no ####, thanks!"

At that point, they'll shake your hand and say thank you and go about their way having learned something new.

You can get pissed about it and probably leave the site again, or you can realize that's the way the world works and do some good now that you've learned another way of interacting with people.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

No, John, I have no intention of leaving the site again. I will, however, continue to knock any newbie upside the head when he tries to tell a bunch of experienced Captains what they should do with their jumpseats.

 

[jtrain609]

If you had done that six years ago you woulda probably just ran a kid like me off the website and straight into GTA's arms.

Now what good would that do?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Were you telling experienced air line Captains what to do with their jumpseats, John? I doubt that.

 

[jtrain609]

I wouldn't doubt anything with me, and my mouth, Todd Especially when I was 20

 

[Alchemy]

The reality of this industry is that it's not all rainbows, carebears, gumdrops, and ponies.

There are some bad people out there, doing bad things for this profession both in management and in the cockpit.

The piloting profession is really on the skids, it has gone nowhere but downhill since the late 90's, when I started flying. It's hard to see that trend reversing itself. Automation, combined with an overabundance of people willing (and able) to do this job for very little money are going to mean this won't be a viable "career" anymore within a few decades, I'm afraid. Unions are powerless over the simple laws of supply and demand. A ton of qualifed pilots competing for a few well paying jobs = downward pressure on wages. I don't see this trend reversing itself, but I hope I'm wrong.

Extending the retirement age to 65 was a chuck norris roundhouse kick to the genitals for young pilots in this decade. It was a double whammy in that it increased the supply of pilots and further limited the availability to attain "career type" jobs.

My grandfather once asked me "you probably like to fly so much you'd do it for free if they didn't pay you, wouldn't you?". I have no idea how he got that idea, as I never so much as uttered anything close to that. I told him no, but he was a long time succesful business man, and I think that's exactly the impression we pilots, especially those of us who are young, give to airline management. They don't respect this profession anymore.

 

[butt]

First off I just want to say that the Jetcareers forum is great and even though I don't post much I get alot of infomation as a lurker and from PMing other folks for more infomation. I have alot of respect for the people that have "made it" but some of the attitudes I have seen lately is kinda troubling.

Now flame me all you want but a simple conversation about Go-Jets turned into name calling and about denying them the jumpseat. Beyond the fact that it's childish I would go over to FI for that....I come here for positive reinforcement. Also IMHO denying somebody the jumpseat because of where they work is just petty,and yes I understand some of you guys can't take them because of the lack of a JS agreement but those of you that can should. Regardless of what uniform anybody is wearing they are airline pilots like yourself and should be treated as such. I ran into a similar issue at my job....a Megabus guy needed to get home to New Haven and since they don't serve that city he had to come over to us...I had open seats and told him to jump on and enjoy the movie. Could I have been a real ass and said NO...yeah and dispatch would have backed me up, but as another professional driver to another, I could not have left the guy there. Just something to think about.

Another thing that I don't like is judgements when people come on looking about info about certain schools. The mentality on JC is you have to CFI then go 135 freight then to the regionals and onward and upward. And GOD FORBID if you don't subscribe to that because then you just have SJS and threats of being blacklisted come out. Everybody has to choose they training path that works for them! What is so hard about accepting that. I have looked at part 61 FBOs in the Northeast and looked at some places like DCA,FSI,MAPD....I have even went so far as talking to the admissions people at GTA. Does that make me a bad person....NO, I'm just trying to find the best possible enviroment for my situation. But if you say you're considering places people consider you to be "unworthy" of respect here. Same thing when you say that being a CFI is not for you. I will say that some people like jtrain and Ian J have giving me some great points of doing the CFI thing but everybody else just jumps on the bandwagon of "YOU HAVE TO OR YOU WON'T BE AS WORTHY" mindset and that why some of these threads go on for 10 pages for no real reason other than calling each other names.

Other than that....I get alot out of this website. Even though I have such a bad procrastinating problem I hopefully will start some training in the '09 and hope to share that with the folks here.

Just remember....Be Tolerant!

Wow. Ignoring the advide of pilots who are more experienced than you. Wow. Just. Wow. Please tell me you aren't a professional pilot.

 

[derg]

It's the nature of the internet.

You can have a forum full of lawyers discussing legal precedent, but the 8th grader who has simply watched the last episode of "Boston Legal" will come across at the same relative volume.

 

[DPApilot]

It's the nature of the internet.

You can have a forum full of lawyers discussing legal precedent, but the 8th grader who has simply watched the last episode of "Boston Legal" will come across at the same relative volume.

Um, actually i watched Law and Orderrrrr (And yes, i did use my "Valley Girl" impression there)

so get it right!

 

[derg]

Well, I watched Top Gun about 15 times. Let me tell you about lift vectors and dogfighting!

 

[DPApilot]

Well, I watched Top Gun about 15 times. Let me tell you about lift vectors and dogfighting!

Well, ive sen "Airplane" many times (and i have it on DVD!)

so can i explain to you the 707/720B's Turboprop Engine Propulsion System?

(TEPS)

 

[BobDDuck]

Wahoo for multi quotes!

You should...He introduced you to me.

Sweet! Hey S.H. Good to see you again buddy. Let's do lunch some time.

It's always been that way around here, it's a forum for newbies.

That's true, but what has changed is the experience level at the top. When I first joined up there weren't that many guys who had actually made it to the regionals/majors. You pretty much had Doug, JT, MikeD and SteveC who were actually flying for pay. Everybody else was a student pilot/RJ driver want to be. And all of those guys, (with MAYBE the exception of Mike) were pretty tactful with HOW they worded stuff so as not to point out that we were all wet behind the newbies who didn't know ####. And because it was worded that way (and because it was a slightly different generation of people), most of us were content to listen, ask questions and then go from there.

Now you've got two things happening. Well, three things really, but with the industry tanking we are back to two. When everything was going gangbusters it was so easy to get a job that many new guys just assumed that getting a seat on an RJ (or prop) was just another step like getting your commercial license. It was pretty much a sure thing. Couple that with a generational change to the ME Generation and you have something of a perfect storm. In our own little micro Universe of JC the other thing that changed was the number of people who are actually flying for pay at regionals, majors and freight outfits. And regretfully, many of them are no where NEAR as tactful in how they word stuff as the earlier guys were. Sou that, combined with the other stuff leads to way more of this "well obviously it's not like that" sort of stuff we've been dealing with.

In my opinion if you come to work and do your job and get the people from point A to point B SAFELY who cares how you got there???? I am now... Happy... Making good money... and a nice QOL...

It's all about you huh? YOU are happy. YOU are making good money and YOU have good QOL. Nevermind that fact that by doing what you did (much like guys taking the RJ programs elsewhere) you've made it that much harder for people to get decently paying jobs in 1900s or RJs. But YOU'RE happy so gives a damn right?

I sure as hell care that somebody shows up to work who can get people from point A to point B safely. That's a given. But guess what? I DO care where you came from because if your history has made it harder for others to get a job with out buying there way in, well to me, the climate of the industry is almost as important as the safety of the industry.

 

[coa787]

Well, ive sen "Airplane" many times (and i have it on DVD!)

so can i explain to you the 707/720B's Turboprop Engine Propulsion System?

(TEPS)

 

[DPApilot]

You've seen the movie?
Surely you would know where this is coming from....

 

[skydog]

I knew a pilot who, at 300 hours, paid for training. She got a job as a Jetstream pilot. A year later she was a Captain. A year after that, she was hired at United. Call it what you want, but it worked for her. If I thought I could have had similar results, I probably would have done the same. The way I see it, she took a risk, and it paid off. She could just as easily have been still flying Jetstreams for the next several years.

Those who fault the PFTers, the Gojetters, and whoever else for their career woes need to take a closer look in the mirror. You're career success, or lack thereof lies, in your own hands, not anybody elses. It is reprehensible that a so-called professional organization criticizes and blacklists anyone who achieved success through means other than what they sanction.

To the OP: This is the nature of the profession you are involving yourself in. Be warned. Good or bad, right or wrong, if you choose not to do things "their way" it will be held against you.

 

[derg]

...and if she's on the guppy and getting furloughed, but replaced with a lower paid E-190 pilot fresh out of flight school...