Appalled...
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Cessna414JJB
Unknown Member
I know a bunch of pilots who have flown in AK, they still have their turkey and potatoes and they have raised good functioning families and made a good living flying. But, each one of the ones I know approached AK with respect and cautious not to fly for bad companies.
I continue to say that mountains and weather in AK is no different than they are here or anywhere else. It's your mindset and attitude that kills you or keeps you alive... not the terrain reaching up snagging airplanes out of the sky. That's the problem I see with the "Bushpilot Wannabe's".
There is more to it than minimum effort, have it your way easy going airline pilot. If you manage to do it right you won't have to live out of a van on the airports parking lot either.
Hell, we all have to die sometime. Why not do it while kicking the devil in the ass when his back is turned?
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Most of these companies are 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, you can live with your family. Not much worse than sitting on reserve in a base away from home.
As for the badass quote, I'm not a badass, I'm scared a load out in the sticks, and have been scared enough. I like to be safe, and comfortable, preferably with a heater, consider the alternatives though, no I don't think everyone should come up here. Its crowded enough, but seriously, realize that you don't have to make RJ pay down there and suffer when there are better jobs available. And guess what? Most of these companies pay enough for you to survive and commute to work.
I don't like the cold either, but you I've got to make money. I think Alaska should be considered as a viable alternative to the RJ world etc. But there are other options. There isn't just alaska that pays better. What about San Juan air in Washington, they pay great, and they don't fly turbine equipment around? Infact, I doubt the can even go IFR. EGADS!
How many times have I been told I'm ruining my career because I'm not building turbine time in the right seat, or doing something else to match the mold (I didn't get my CFI either) and that I'll never make any money, or never upgrade at a real airline, when for the most part, I'm having fun, and making great money? The opportunities will come, and its all time in the log book. Have fun with it.
Contract work there isn't much off, but seasonal summer gigs paying more than $40,000 can be found, as can 2-on-2-off gigs. Hageland for example, is the prime 2-on-2-off gig. Fly year round with 1000-1400hrs per year, make bank, and take a vacation back to your house in Pittsburgh or whereever every 2 weeks.
"Realistically, we make our own decisions" is true, however how many people have you and others lit up for not going the traditional route by getting their CFIs etc? I dont' care what you do frankly, I'm just tired of people bitching about how terrible the career is, and how little the pay is, and then not thinking there are any other options. If pay and QoL, and everything else at the regionals sucks so much, then leave. And then, if not by gallavanting off to Alaska then somewhere else.
Maybe some of us can understand that and some of us cannot (no space).
The death counts really aren't that much higher, and really, its only as dangerous as you make it. Don't do anything stupid at the wrong time, and you're not going to die. The pay is higher because even the non-union companies up here (pretty much all of them) realize that you've got to pay people who are going stick around and work. Its a lot of work, a lot more than just being the pilot, you load, fuel, brief, care for the pax, be a guidance counsellor, and unload debrief on every leg. People don't just jump up to do that, you have to pay them.
Some people don't want to go where the good jobs may be, or don't want to look for anything outside the "normal" career path, whatever that is.
Other options? Wht are you talking about, other options! It's not a shiny jet, where you get to wear a white shirt and neat epaulet stripes!! And get paid beans to do it because every pogue will do it for free......some will even pay!
.....and avoiding furlough. What's a "real" airline anyway, aside from the mainline? My first only turbine time prior to the mil was turboprop, and not much of that. There's no "one great way" to make it in the biz, much of it depends on what you want to do. For everyone that complains about regional pay, well...you took the job knowing that. It's not like you were promised 6 figures, then were surprised by your first paycheck.
Shack. Many other options are available; it all depends what one wants to do and how flexible they're able to be. That will widen or narrow the opportunities.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Hey ppragman,
Guess what.
I'm not suffering. I'm actually quite happy right now. So any illusion of people flying RJ's or being out of work as suffering souls, doesn't really fly too well with me.
But, I'm sure that won't halt any ridiculous notions of how you perceive people should make decisions. Right?
Guess what.
I'm not suffering. I'm actually quite happy right now. So any illusion of people flying RJ's or being out of work as suffering souls, doesn't really fly too well with me.
But, I'm sure that won't halt any ridiculous notions of how you perceive people should make decisions. Right?
That's the thing, though. What works for one, may not work for another; and vice versa. It's going to completely vary depending on the person and their individual situation. And every route in this career has it's own plusses and minuses.
Just my 3 cents.
EDIT: Ooops. Glossed over the part where you were addressing someone else, not me. My bad.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Of course it is Mike.
I, and I think many of the responsible adults here realize this. At least in my experience with jtrain, wheelsup and even Trip7.
Yet, for some individual who is enjoying his career path in Alaska to tell those of us who work at the RJ flying companies that we should have came up to Alaska is nonsense.
He knows nothing about why we made the decision we each made, yet he feels the need to think it's a god forbidden destiny that we ended up flying at a regional company instead of single engine pistons in the cold north? Give me a break.
I, and I think many of the responsible adults here realize this. At least in my experience with jtrain, wheelsup and even Trip7.
Yet, for some individual who is enjoying his career path in Alaska to tell those of us who work at the RJ flying companies that we should have came up to Alaska is nonsense.
He knows nothing about why we made the decision we each made, yet he feels the need to think it's a god forbidden destiny that we ended up flying at a regional company instead of single engine pistons in the cold north? Give me a break.
Cessna414JJB
Unknown Member
What exactly are you choosing to be offended about?
Where did anyone put himself above you?
Sorry - don't get it but would like to.
I believe if some of the 'rules' of AK where applied in the CONUS we would all get paid better.
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
I read it as pointing out a viable alternative for many, not an indictment for anyone. I know he has offered to help anyone looking to get up there. He has consistently done that.
Chill a little bit amigo.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
I'm not choosing to be offended about anything, where did this notion of a hierarchy come from? No one is ranking anyone.
I am chill. . .but I take issue with the shortsightedness in the following quote:
No, perhaps we didn't run on up to Alaska because. . .
1) We don't like the cold
2) We have families
3) We run other businesses that require our attention
4) We view Alaska as a vacation environment
5) We don't like fish or crab
6) We enjoy 1.8 acres of land and 3 bedroom 2.5 bath homes for $140k instead of whatever real estate market is in Alaska
7) We don't like Sarah Palin
8) We already paid our own personal dues by either serving our country or with the peace corps thus spending enough time away from our families or putting them into places where they also don't want to be.
I could go on and on and on.
It's not about turbine time for most of us. It's about our own personal decisions, that some guy on the internet doesn't know nor will he ever know unless he specifically asks, but he doesn't - he assumes it's all about turbine time and no one would want to come to Alaska unless there is turbine time involved.
How about Bristol? She comes as a "complete package", and is back on the market, from what I hear
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Awesome, you're having the time of your life and making great money, but for every one of you, there are probably 3 who are rapidly becoming disallusioned with aviation. Do what you want, but realize, there are other options if you run out of luck. And guess what, I'll be here, and you can crash on my couch while you look for a job. I don't care what you do, just don't be miserable and think that this job is so terrible when really, its pretty cush. I don't think you're below me, hell, I wish I could fly RJs, it'd be awesome if I could have decent pay and go cool places as I captained an Embraer, but I can't and won't because I don't want to live on less than $30,000 per year when there are better options for me right now. And I definitely don't want to do it for years waiting to captain up, just to get furloughed.
Look, you guys have some awesome things going for you, you're flying cool equipment, you've got CASS and good benes (which my particular company doesn't have) and you're probably home fairly regularly, but if that's not enough, or if the pay sucks too much, consider something else. I know my little section of the industry. If you're are looking, shoot me a pm and I'll throw you as best I can in the right direction. I don't want to screw anyone, and too many people have helped me out in my short career for me to build bad karma. In short, I don't care what you do, just don't sit unhappy for a lifetime, because you'll end up being a bitter bastard, and life is too short for that.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. Just realize there is nothing god forbidden about the decisions we each make. That's my point. The sensationalism was just a bit too much.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Then don't come up, but don't look down on people who leave less lucrative jobs for the north. You're missing the meta-point however, because what I'm trying to say is don't sit unhappy, go someplace that makes you happy. If that isn't alaska, then go to KeyWest or whereever. As for your list.
1) We don't like the cold
I hate the cold. More than anything.
2) We have families
I don't, that's fair.
3) We run other businesses that require our attention
Also fair. But that's probably not the case for most.
4) We view Alaska as a vacation environment
It is. That's one of our biggest industries.
5) We don't like fish or crab
You do realize we eat more than fish and crab up here right?
6) We enjoy 1.8 acres of land and 3 bedroom 2.5 bath homes for $140k instead of whatever real estate market is in Alaska\
Its about that outside of Anchorage. (And not in the sticks either, I mean like driving distance to anchorage)
7) We don't like Sarah Palin
I don't either, I think she's a blight on our state. She's bankrupted our treasury. I don't like Arnold Schwartzeneggar (sp?) but that wouldn't stop me from moving to California.
8) We already paid our own personal dues by either serving our country or with the peace corps thus spending enough time away from our families or putting them into places where they also don't want to be.
That's fair, but what's better? 20-on reserve at a base away from home, then 10-off, or 2-weeks-on-2-weeks-off making $200/day plus $25/hr for flight times over 60hrs in a month?
I know a NW Cargo guy (now delta cargo or whatever that beast of a company is) that sits in ANC away from his family for a month not flying while he waits on reserve. Yeah, it must be great to work for the majors.
Its all in what you want. If that's what you want then great, do your thing. That's not what I want though.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
See my above post.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I'm just talking about the overall attitude that abounds in flightschools (do your time and get out, get to the majors) we'll all be where we are for quite a while if the economy doesn't make a serious rebound. If I was over the top, then that's fine. My apologies.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
See my above post.
Damn, it takes to long to type my response. Giggity, I see we're now kindof on the same sheet of music.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Yes.
Cessna414JJB
Unknown Member
Oh! Smoke from peace pipe... :bandit:
How fix the pay?
I 'thunk' that was the initial subjecto? Si?
How fix the pay?
I 'thunk' that was the initial subjecto? Si?
