Appalled...

[RPM]

Oh come on now. Our medical evaluations are a joke. Most companies proficiency checks are a joke too.

What, what... not sure about you guys but My first class medical is a killer..

It consist of stepping on a scale, getting height/weight
Blood pressure
Shirt off sometimes.. usually not
"say ahh"
read 1 line for vision test

"You look to still be in excellent shape.. here ya go, see ya next year"

most difficult/stressful/possible career ending 3 minutes of my year..:cwm27:

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Oh come on now. Our medical evaluations are a joke. Most companies proficiency checks are a joke too.

You and I don't have to take EKGs yet, but that's a career-ender for many pilots, and it can't be "overlooked" by an understanding AME. How many other professionals lose their careers if they get diabetes that requires insulin shots? I've represented a lot of pilots that fought like mad to hold on to their medicals because of things that were truly minor. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Doc Hudson and the rest of the guys out at ALPA Aeromedical stay very busy with helping pilots keep their careers alive. It's no joke.

As far as proficiency checks, that depends on the company. They're a nightmare at my company. We call checkride day "career day," because everyone worries that every checkride could be the one that ends their entire career. It's brutal in our checking (not training) department.

We're not really that supervised/scrutinized.

You and I are not in the same profession. You don't fly airliners in the 121 environment.

 

[C150J]

You and I are not in the same profession. You don't fly airliners in the 121 environment.

PPrag -

I want to expand on this in a way that CERTAINLY, BY NO MEANS, denigrates what you do for a living. There are weather conditions and approaches in AK that certainly make your profession a technically challenging one. What I think PCL is trying to say is that part 121 oversight is to the point of insanity, and that we are micromanaged and questioned about our actions in ridiculous ways. I'll give some examples:

1) Our airline had a crew take off and head towards a major airport with a valid release and land without issue. However, a dispatch supervisor later noticed that the dispatcher overlooked insufficient Mumeter friction readings for the intended landing runway and a TAF forecasting high winds (exceeding the aircraft's contaminated runway crosswind component), making the dispatch of the flight illegal. This crew is now being investigated, even though they landed safely on a runway with BRAG reported by multiple aircraft.

2) Prior to descending through FL180, an FAA jumpseater observed a crew set the STANDBY altimeter to the destination ATIS altimeter setting. The FAA argued that this violated RVSM protocol (despite the fact that they were cruising at FL220) and this crew is being investigated.

3) Crews have been accused of not doing appropriate SECURITY checks on preflights by personnel with no aviation training or experience and face fines and TSA violations.


Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, PCL. I just think that's what you were trying to say.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

No, you're absolutely right. Flying part 135 up in Alaska is not the same ball game as flying 121. The level of scrutiny is very different.

 

[Seggy]

nevermind

 

[KLB]

PPrag -

I want to expand on this in a way that CERTAINLY, BY NO MEANS, denigrates what you do for a living. There are weather conditions and approaches in AK that certainly make your profession a technically challenging one. What I think PCL is trying to say is that part 121 oversight is to the point of insanity, and that we are micromanaged and questioned about our actions in ridiculous ways. I'll give some examples:

1) Our airline had a crew take off and head towards a major airport with a valid release and land without issue. However, a dispatch supervisor later noticed that the dispatcher overlooked insufficient Mumeter friction readings for the intended landing runway and a TAF forecasting high winds (exceeding the aircraft's contaminated runway crosswind component), making the dispatch of the flight illegal. This crew is now being investigated, even though they landed safely on a runway with BRAG reported by multiple aircraft.

2) Prior to descending through FL180, an FAA jumpseater observed a crew set the STANDBY altimeter to the destination ATIS altimeter setting. The FAA argued that this violated RVSM protocol (despite the fact that they were cruising at FL220) and this crew is being investigated.

3) Crews have been accused of not doing appropriate SECURITY checks on preflights by personnel with no aviation training or experience and face fines and TSA violations.


Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, PCL. I just think that's what you were trying to say.

Some 135 operations scutinize just as much as what you just mentioned. I am envious of you having someone fighting to help you protect your career.

 

[Seggy]

Airlines are the most regulated, deregulated industry out there...

 

[3enginejock]

I'll go with you on this one. Three strikes and you're out.

I don't agree with this one, I have never failed a checkride but I imagine some people fail 1-2 just in training to get their commercial ticket.

3 failed checkrides in a lifetime is not a whole lot of room for error and everyone has bad days.

 

[MikeD]

Airlines are the most regulated, deregulated industry out there...

Good on you guys for being able to deal with the crap you do in your part of the industry. Between some of the examples 150J gave (seemingly open and shut cases to me), the TSA, the pay/QOL, the furloughs/instability, etc, etc; you'd have to really love the job to be able to hang in there. I'd be driven crazy.

btw, USAF was (still is...as a reservist) the most regulated, regulated industry I had to deal with.

 

[ppragman]

No, you're absolutely right. Flying part 135 up in Alaska is not the same ball game as flying 121. The level of scrutiny is very different.

This is true. I'm not a 121-er so my level of experience in these regards is lacking.

 

[Gonzo]

As far as proficiency checks, that depends on the company. They're a nightmare at my company. We call checkride day "career day," because everyone worries that every checkride could be the one that ends their entire career. It's brutal in our checking (not training) department.

Same here at Eagle.

I'll go with you on this one. Three strikes and you're out.

I guess I should be out then.
P.S.- two of my retest where .2 and .3. :banghead::banghead:

 

[H46Bubba]

Same here at Eagle.



I guess I should be out then.
P.S.- two of my retest where .2 and .3. :banghead::banghead:

Where the hell have you been hiding out at?

 

[CFI4life]

This is the way I see it. From a business stand point....Once the age 65 rule takes effect, the regionals are left with one of two choices to deal with the shortage. A: lower minimums to around 300 TT 25 multi or B: raise wages to attract potential pilots.

The obvious answer is A; however this does not have to be the case. I think the easiest way to stop this would be to regulate the minumums. Think of what would happen if the minimums for an FO where 1000 TT or higher.

I know what your thinking, the minimums used to be even higher than that and they still paid crap! True. But this next hiring bubble will be like no other. If airlines are running at the same capacity in the next four years, they will have no other choice but to hire like crazy. A perfect storm is upon the HR departments of many airlines.

With the minimums as low as they where in the last fews years, pilots where willing to sacrifice money to get in the right seat of a jet after 6 months or less of training and salaries stayed low. Look at what happend to CFI salaries during the regional boom. I had several offers of 40-50k a year and full benefits. This happend because all the CFI's were being plucked from the regionals and no one was taking their place because less people needed to instruct to get where they ultimately wanted to go. With minimums being higher, less folks would be willing to stick it out. Less supply equals higher salary, plain and simple.

 

[jtrain609]

Why don't unions start putting requirements in their contracts that any FO's hired will be required to have X qualifications?

 

[ppragman]

Why don't unions start putting requirements in their contracts that any FO's hired will be required to have X qualifications?

I would be in favor of that.

 

[CFI4life]

Why don't unions start putting requirements in their contracts that any FO's hired will be required to have X qualifications?

there ya go.

 

[Socal321]

:yeahthat:


And what is the result of heavy merging? Less jobs. Ask the NWA/DAL folks about that. Regulation will be much worse than mega merges. Say goodbye to all the LLCs. Pay will absolutely go up. But very few pilots would ever make it to the major and/or regional airlines.

LOL. Very few pilots would ever make it to the majors? If anything it's todays pilots that will never make it to a major. Today the most you can aspire is to be a CRJ captain, or never even breaking six figures. Nobody expects to go to a major or a higher paying job like they did before simply because the jobs do not exist. You can hope but with no jobs, the backlog of furloughs, and the uncertainties of age 65, it's going to be a long long wait. Regional flying is going to be if it isn't already half of all flying, I know it is for UA for example. There is a movement towards, LCCs and alter-egos. There needs to be less competition, yes there will be less jobs but at least we know the QOL will be there as well as the better kind of jobs. However did they do it back in the "day"?

 

[skydog]

Why don't unions start putting requirements in their contracts that any FO's hired will be required to have X qualifications?

Because the union doesn't hire people.

What happens when the company can't get qualified applicants per the union standards?

What would you be willing to give up in order to get such a thing in your contract? I guarantee you it will cost a heavy price.

 

[ppragman]

Because the union doesn't hire people.

What happens when the company can't get qualified applicants per the union standards?

What would you be willing to give up in order to get such a thing in your contract? I guarantee you it will cost a heavy price.

The other pilots fly more.

 

[derg]

Oh they're there. Just that why on God's green earth would a highly experienced pilot from the military or a high time professional pilot want to fly for pilot-decimated wages?

No one on earth is qualified to be a doctor, but there's a financial incentive to BECOME a doctor and jump thru the requisite hoops... Then voila, there we have a qualified and trained applicant fresh from residency that's ready to do the work.

It will self-correct.