AOPAs Richard McSpadden accident, fatal

[Murdoughnut]

It was part of the PPL PTS until maybe the late 1990s? There were a few accidents while training it, and it got pulled out. My initial CFI was still teaching it in the early 2000s though. Made for an interested intro flight.

I did my initial training in '96 and it was very much part of the training. When I went back to actually complete my PPL in 2006 it wasn't in the PTS, but my instructor definitely let me get loose on a few power on stalls to accidentally demonstrate it.

 

[Boris Badenov]

I wonder how the Tomahawk compared to the Beech Skipper.

IMS, they took a couple of the ribs out of the Tomahawk wing in the initial design, such that the wing *could* flex so much that a spin could become unrecoverable. This was quickly remedied, but the reputation still follows it around to this day. I flew one around in the 90s, and span it, and it was just fine. It was best not to look back at the tail when stalling, though...

 

[BobDDuck]

It was best not to look back at the tail when stalling, though...

Sitting all the way in the back of one of the longer DC9s in moderate turbulence produced a similar effect.

 

[Richman]

Even though they look identical, the internals of the Tomahawk and the Skipper are entirely different.

I think either with today’s robust townsfolk, are basically half seat airplanes. They could really use an HP boost, but the Sparrowhawk conversion (125 hp) isn’t available.

 

[Richman]

The rumor about the Tomahawk is....that Piper changed the internals significantly from the certification article to the production version. That removed some of the stiffness from the wing, which changed the stall characteristics. Of course, that's just hangar talk. No way to really know if is true without doing real, actual research. Of course, if true, Piper wasn't the only one's with gaffs like that. Cessna had to redo the Cardinal after it started because it turned out it couldn't meet the FAR climb specs.

I always thought they'd have been better off tossing away the silly t-tail design, tossing in 125hp to start and going from there, but I was like 8, and no one asked me.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

Preliminary came out, nothing terribly groundbreaking. Sounds like they were conscious when rescue arrived but had fatal injuries. It seems they were short of the plateau the runway sat on by only 15 feet.

https://flyingmag.sfo3.digitaloceanspaces.com/flyingma/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/20193606/Report_ERA24FA001_193166_10_20_2023-3_15_21-PM.pdf

 

[Boris Badenov]

No way to really know if is true without doing real, actual research.

I remember reading something years (ok, decades) ago that was a pretty authoritative explanation of what happened (think it was some airplane-buying guide from the 80s), and it basically backed up your account. IMS, the bean-counters were like "well, why don't we just delete these ribs here, it'll save us $10/unit", and woops, catastrophe!

 

[🦈💜]

As long as you don't lose all that energy hitting the tailwind and not make it.

That is not how this works. JFC.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Preliminary came out, nothing terribly groundbreaking. Sounds like they were conscious when rescue arrived but had fatal injuries. It seems they were short of the plateau the runway sat on by only 15 feet.

https://flyingmag.sfo3.digitaloceanspaces.com/flyingma/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/20193606/Report_ERA24FA001_193166_10_20_2023-3_15_21-PM.pdf

I certainly thought this was interesting ...

During taxi out, witnesses heard the engine of the accident airplane running when the BeechA36 pulled up next to it. The accident airplane’s engine then shut off, and about 10 seconds later, the engine restarted

 

[Mr Grinch]

Yes, interesting, as are some of the descriptions of the fuel pump and control continuities. Nothing indicative.

I’m astonished that there is still so much ”rumor” in aviation. The “impossible turn” nonsense, the Tomahawk death trap, “four seconds to live in a Baron after engine failure“, etc. No one (except Dan Gryder of course) knows what Russ Francis and Col McSpadden were looking at off the end of the runway. Has anyone bothered to investigate? They may have had no choice but to turn, and their turn may not have been meant to get back to the runway. No one really knows, but that has never stopped the hangar flying geniuses from jumping to conclusions and repeating “what they heard”. As a few have mentioned, it’s just a gliding turn, that can be executed depending upon if the conditions that exist will accommodate it.

I had a student in Training Command who did a paper on the runway turn back considerations. Brent Jett, MS in Aero Engineering. Flew the shuttle four times. I’m sure that you can find the paper for a start to your research.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

Looks like there's a trailer park/residential area and wooded areas off the end of 32 at Lake Placid, so it doesn't seem like they had much of an option.

 

[ChasenSFO]

That is not how this works. JFC.

Yes, that was already explained. It's called learning.