trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
No.
AOPAs Richard McSpadden accident, fatal
- Thread starter MikeD
- Start date
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Yeah, of course. Sorry if I conveyed the idea as some kind of panacea. I was just kinda intimating the idea that MOST planes kinda, sorta want to fly.
The "TraumaHawk" is the perfect example in GA-land. Piper specifically crafted that plane as a spin trainer. In that plane, in order to recover from a spin, the pilot HAD to hold the PARE for a considerable amount of time... multiple seconds! That was the whole point of the design! The point was to train the PARE response. Sadly, as is often the case, many pilots and instructors failed to read "the book of instruction" for the plane and, thus, perished. And another perfectly good aircraft got a bad rap.
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LOL. Damn. Just when I thought he'd calmed down due to me not "harassing" him anymore. Glad to know it wasn't just me.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
If the applicant demonstrates impeccable coordination during that kind of pull, however, the examiner may let it pass - and be impressed.
Reminds me of my very first CQ/recurrent a few months back. IP (and APD evaluating him) step over my shoulder and says something like “Hey ///AMG, really nice stick and rudder work” on the V1 cut. I’m thinking to myself, “well the TPRO turn is into the failed engine, so even a dead person could probably make that turn look nice” But to be fair, nobody in the military ever said nice job ever, so I smiled contentedly
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Even when holding the yoke full back, and full opposite rudder, most 172s will come out of a spin after a turn or two, and settle in to a steep, spiraling dive.
Well done.Reminds me of my very first CQ/recurrent a few months back. IP steps over my shoulder and says something like “Hey ///AMG, really nice stick and rudder work” on the V1 cut. I’m thinking to myself, “well the TPRO turn is into the failed engine, so even a dead person could probably make that turn” But to be fair, nobody in the military ever said nice job ever, so I smiled contentedly
And you're spot on about the emboldened quote part. That tendency is getting writ large these days in all domains. Both because there are fewer good jobs, and also because there are fewer who are capable - intellectually or psychologically - of recognizing and praising one when it happens.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
That doesn't sound like any fun at all. I suggest nobody should do that.
You weren’t wrong, there are a number of aircraft have a desire to work themselves out of an actual spin, and seek to do so barring any pilot input that keeps them from doing so. I remember doing spin rides in the North American T-2C Buckeye and Cessna T-37B Tweet. Those two jets will doing nothing to help you, and nothing to hurt you, as the pilot. But they fully expect you and you alone, to recover from whatever degree of upset you placed them into.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Haha we had this sim CI/instructor in meridian named Burt Zeller.....he used to fly a T-2B on the air show circuit, not sure if he still does. But he was a loud personality. I came to respect him and not fear him, after a few sims where i was able to get him to laugh and the relationship changed after that. But i remember his quote in T-45 ground school which was “I have more time spinning a T-2 than any of you do in airplanes”. And it was probably true at the time. Those old guys taught a lot more than just flying though
The Tweet is a spinner's delight!
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I agree. When I was still a CFI, I always made sure my students knew that a) a VMC demo in a Seminole was not even close to the real thing, and b) the "spin" training they got in a 172 when prepping for their CFI was the softest spins they'd ever see. It didn't help that the two year CFI who did the sign offs back then was terrified of spinning the airplane and would do a steep spiral with them instead. We had special permission to go up for an hour with the students when they came back and show them what real spins (in a 172 anyways) actually looked like.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
There is a short book that Cessna published outlining the spin characteristics of all of their piston singles. It's pretty spot on.
LOL @ a steep spiral substituting for a spin!
///AMG
Well-Known Member
What a disaster haha. I personally am of the opinion that spin training should be mandatory for all pilots, and probably some being upside down training too (maybe both at the same time, though that is a somewhat violent spin).......probably wouldn’t have broken a tail off a 767 and crashed it into Queens during a “wake turbulence” encounter if we did that, I’d guess. I had a pretty notable wake turbulence encounter last week as PF following an A321 on the SUMMA dep in SEA. Just let her roll baby. She comes back upright. Turns out nobody in the back got scared, FAs just thought we were f*ing with them
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Sure. Not sure where you are going to find that many instructors proficient in spins though (I'm absolutely not one anymore). Airplanes approved for spins are getting harder to find as well.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Fair counterpoint. Limiting factor is probably the airplanes, like you said. I just want to have my druthers. Can i not have my DRUTHERS????!!!!
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
That was a Scarebus 300. And to be fair, the design of the tail itself was cited as a contributing factor. AA's AAMP was also cited, although to be fair, that Vanderburgh guy clearly said to use the rudder with care and only when necessary. This FO had a history of rudder smashing. His standard go to move for wake was smashing pedals.
A320 and B737, rudder to maintain centerline. ONCE airborne, feet flat on the floor and do not touch them unless you lose an engine. Works well long time.
You're 100% CORRECT on guys reacting to wake in this 737NG or MAX. I've seen guys absolutely start to man handle the hell out the thing.
WORSE, when I'm flying and dealing with the wake, I've seen some FOs hands go up to the yoke. What do you think you are about to do?! Relieve me from the controls? Or worse, now fight me while I'm on the controls?
Never in history of 737s has a 737 rolled past 90 degrees inverted due to wake and ended up a smoking crater. Calm TF down.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
It was part of the PPL PTS until maybe the late 1990s? There were a few accidents while training it, and it got pulled out. My initial CFI was still teaching it in the early 2000s though. Made for an interested intro flight.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I rolled 96 degrees (per the DFDR) to the left in a CRJ taking off behind an A330 at PHL one rainy night at about 500 feet. So far the only interaction with the NTSB in my career. Thankfully everyone in the back was belted in still and there were only a few minor injuries.
Also, its not just the amount of the roll, but also the velocity of the roll motion.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Spin demonstration was like lesson 2 or 3 for me back in 2000 or so? It was still a thing then. Not in the PTS, but CFIs were supposed to demonstrate one (I think. It's been a while.)
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