Am I nuts?

[alaskadrifter]

C, reverse C, little C, big C, inverted C, double C, D-O-double C, C-I-E-I-O has entered the chat

I still say “isolate and ventilate” after starting #2. That panel was not taught well to me during training, I only started to grasp it about the time I finished OE.

This just triggered a core memory from when I was a young pup flying a Cherokee 6

*Laughs in PA-20. No I’m not trying to snuggle you, I’m just trying to latch the door and no one else knows the secret handshake.*

 

[word302]

In 5 years I had one person on my no fly bid. Which has to be updated monthly. That was after a very disappointing call to pro standards.

If I had only had to fly out of SEA for 9 months I would have never had a bad experience. My last month as an FO I flew with PDX crews a lot and it was entirely different vibe than SEA.


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Yeah we have at least one in PDX, and of course I picked the trip up. Seattle’s bound to have more wing nuts just by shear volume.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Yeah we have at least one in PDX, and of course I picked the trip up. Seattle’s bound to have more wing nuts just by shear volume.

There's 800 of us....

That being said: it's worlds better than any 91/135 and just as good as SKW when it comes to CRM. I do tend to point out worst case situations because they are, worst case. It doesn't mean everyone is like that. I just want my coworkers to be better. I want to work at the best airline to work at.

So I took the first available and strive to be better than anyone I have flown with at any airline. I think I'm doing OK so far.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It all comes down what is safer?

Do you want to do something from memory when there is a list that tells you how to do it properly? While hand flying?

Or just let your FO do it from a list?

I’ve done a few of these as CA and not only do I not reach over and flip any switches while hand flying. I remind the FO that it isn’t a race to flip the switches the fastest. Use the checklist and be methodical. I also remind them that they have over 8 minutes to accomplish the checklist if we climb at an average of 2K per minute to 17K.


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I don’t reach up when I’m handflying. If you’re handflying, you should be calling for the PM to do what you need done.


How’s SEA when it comes to the GPWS test? No where have I seen so much nonstandardization as this one simple test. Double punching it (a non-no from Stan notes) for a “no faults” aural. Or reaching to my side and putting my radios from NORM to ALT to kill 50% audio. Or worse, both sides NORM to ALT so all audios are killed.

I flew with a 6 month newhire and he was doing this. Amazing. Took 2 months on the line to get like this.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I don’t reach up when I’m handflying. If you’re handflying, you should be calling for the PM to do what you need done.


How’s SEA when it comes to the GPWS test? No where have I seen so much nonstandardization as this one simple test. Double punching it (a non-no from Stan notes) for a “no faults” aural. Or reaching to my side and putting my radios from NORM to ALT to kill 50% audio. Or worse, both sides NORM to ALT so all audios are killed.

I flew with a 6 month newhire and he was doing this. Amazing. Took 2 months on the line to get like this.

I don't know.

If I show early I offer to get the FO a coffee or do the walk. I don't watch them run tests. I do verify the FMC loadout. Once they are done with everything and we have run the before start I do offer some mentorship. If they are open to it and I ask first, I show them how to make the VNAV work for them. If it is their leg I let them know that whatever I put in the FMC is optional and they are totally welcome to delete it. I'm just trying to transfer knowledge. Some have told me they aren't interested in mentorship and I leave it at that.

I don't believe that the EGPWS would fault without being very clear to everyone it was very much broken. I've seen it tell me it was very broken on a flight to PHX when Uncle Sam broke GPS for about 500 miles. I hope the FO's are running the test as they are meant to. I personally feel that they are instructed to run the test because someone in training/standards decided to make them do it. Since the test button was just sitting there. Unloved.

I run the tests on the APP/VOR functions with the course set at 180/000 but I think it's a holdover from the 200 days when the needles were mechanical. Personally, I think it is pointless. If it is broken, it will tell you it is broken. However, I still do what my employer tells me to do. If I do what they tell me to do they can't fire me for being negligent.

I do my job. To the best of my ability. I do my best to be good at CRM and not micromanage. I hope the FO's do a good preflight and I try to double check everything I can. Personally, I don't have strong feelings about pushing the test button on a box that is programmed to tell you when it is broken.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I don't know.

If I show early I offer to get the FO a coffee or do the walk. I don't watch them run tests. I do verify the FMC loadout. Once they are done with everything and we have run the before start I do offer some mentorship. If they are open to it and I ask first, I show them how to make the VNAV work for them. If it is their leg I let them know that whatever I put in the FMC is optional and they are totally welcome to delete it. I'm just trying to transfer knowledge. Some have told me they aren't interested in mentorship and I leave it at that.

Who are these “some” people. Oh wait, it’s SEA.

Don’t wanna be mentored? Um, your job requires this. Actually, the FAA requires it and now the airlines require it.

I don't believe that the EGPWS would fault without being very clear to everyone it was very much broken. I've seen it tell me it was very broken on a flight to PHX when Uncle Sam broke GPS for about 500 miles. I hope the FO's are running the test as they are meant to. I personally feel that they are instructed to run the test because someone in training/standards decided to make them do it. Since the test button was just sitting there. Unloved.

I mean, it’s still procedure. Call me crazy, I just think one should do their job the way they’re paid to do it?

I run the tests on the APP/VOR functions with the course set at 180/000 but I think it's a holdover from the 200 days when the needles were mechanical. Personally, I think it is pointless. If it is broken, it will tell you it is broken. However, I still do what my employer tells me to do. If I do what they tell me to do they can't fire me for being negligent.

Did you know the VOR test explains to push in the Marker button with speaker on, so you hear all 3 Inner, Middle, and Outer marker go off at the same time? I’ll hear it, and then depress the marker button off. A few FOs have asked, what’s that noise? I have yet to have a FO know what it is.

It’s only on the CA side, and only on NGs. Not the MAX.

Like you, I just do the job like we are supposed to.

I do my job. To the best of my ability. I do my best to be good at CRM and not micromanage. I hope the FO's do a good preflight and I try to double check everything I can. Personally, I don't have strong feelings about pushing the test button on a box that is programmed to tell you when it is broken.

Meh, the way I see it, the GPWS is the only aural voice we get in an already too quiet airplane. There is no 50-40-30-20-10. So if there’s an aural warning system, I’d like to make sure this thing tests and works as it should.

 

[Roger Roger]

I still say “isolate and ventilate” after starting #2. That panel was not taught well to me during training, I only started to grasp it about the time I finished OE.

What, you don’t like the auto switch that leaves auto twice every flight cycle?

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

@Cherokee_Cruiser

I mostly agree with all that also I learned something new about the IM, MM, OM.

 

[FlyinSol0]

Who are these “some” people. Oh wait, it’s SEA.

Don’t wanna be mentored? Um, your job requires this. Actually, the FAA requires it and now the airlines require it.






I mean, it’s still procedure. Call me crazy, I just think one should do their job the way they’re paid to do it?




Did you know the VOR test explains to push in the Marker button with speaker on, so you hear all 3 Inner, Middle, and Outer marker go off at the same time? I’ll hear it, and then depress the marker button off. A few FOs have asked, what’s that noise? I have yet to have a FO know what it is.

It’s only on the CA side, and only on NGs. Not the MAX.

Like you, I just do the job like we are supposed to.




Meh, the way I see it, the GPWS is the only aural voice we get in an already too quiet airplane. There is no 50-40-30-20-10. So if there’s an aural warning system, I’d like to make sure this thing tests and works as it should.

You don’t get an aural 50 foot countdown on your 73s?

 

[DE727UPS]

I never offered "mentorship" in the left seat. Maybe a few times when I thought they really needed it or asked. And those time were REALLY rare. My brief was "it's your airplane and fly it like you please". "I'll let you know if I don't like something and expect you to do the same". Most of my F/O's were better sticks than me anyways. No problem with that. I just wanted my 727 back.... I always held the door open for F/O's and let them check in first at the front desk. I tried to be the lowest maintenance of any Capt they ever flew with. That all worked well for me and I'd do it that way again.

 

[RORO]

You don’t get an aural 50 foot countdown on your 73s?

Yea, I'm confused as well. Also, how many tests are you guys doing in flight?

 

[alaskadrifter]

What, you don’t like the auto switch that leaves auto twice every flight cycle?

It was a rude awakening coming from the Airbus .

Yea, I'm confused as well. Also, how many tests are you guys doing in flight?

No aural altitude warning. The GPWS test is during the preflight.

 

[FlyinSol0]

It was a rude awakening coming from the Airbus .

No aural altitude warning. The GPWS test is during the preflight.

Interesting, didn’t realize how much I’d depend on it in our 73s

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Yea, I'm confused as well. Also, how many tests are you guys doing in flight?

CC asked me how I felt about a test that the FO conducts on the preflight. Before we run the first checklist.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I never offered "mentorship" in the left seat. Maybe a few times when I thought they really needed it or asked. And those time were REALLY rare. My brief was "it's your airplane and fly it like you please". "I'll let you know if I don't like something and expect you to do the same". Most of my F/O's were better sticks than me anyways. No problem with that. I just wanted my 727 back.... I always held the door open for F/O's and let them check in first at the front desk. I tried to be the lowest maintenance of any Capt they ever flew with. That all worked well for me and I'd do it that way again.

Our training department has been putting a big emphasis on mentorship lately. I think it's an FAA emphasis item as well. I'd guess that we have a lot less experience in the right seat presently than you did. I primarily fly with the last couple hundred numbers on the seniority list. So that's when I bring mentorship up. My seniority or better and there are 800 FOs senior to me systemwide, I don't mention it.

 

[roundout]

too quiet

You said you fly the 737 right?

I never offered "mentorship" in the left seat. Maybe a few times when I thought they really needed it or asked. And those time were REALLY rare. My brief was "it's your airplane and fly it like you please". "I'll let you know if I don't like something and expect you to do the same". Most of my F/O's were better sticks than me anyways. No problem with that. I just wanted my 727 back.... I always held the door open for F/O's and let them check in first at the front desk. I tried to be the lowest maintenance of any Capt they ever flew with. That all worked well for me and I'd do it that way again.

The ALPA code of ethics actually lists mentoring less-experienced pilots as a part of the duties of being a Captain. The FAA believes this also, and this is indicated by the fact that a Fed can renew a Captain’s CFI certificate via “duties and responsibilities” but can’t do the same for an FO.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You don’t get an aural 50 foot countdown on your 73s?

Nope.


The only thing we get is “Minimums” if you have the BARO set. And “500” on non-ILS approaches.


And since an overwhelming majority of approaches are to a runway with an ILS with VMC conditions, there’s absolute silence.

Not gonna lie, coming off a CRJ-200 with a 100, and 50-40-30-20-10 and an A320 with 2,500, 1000, 500, 200, 100, 50, 40, 30, Retard, (sometimes) 10, 5…


…approaching and landing in silence took a little getting used to. Flare is pure sight image only with no aural callouts to help.

 

[Baronman]

Who are these “some” people. Oh wait, it’s SEA.

Don’t wanna be mentored? Um, your job requires this. Actually, the FAA requires it and now the airlines require it.

I figure read the room. New FO, sure mentor away…. Guy with double the time you have on the plane and at the airline, probably different situation.

 

[word302]

I figure read the room. New FO, sure mentor away…. Guy with double the time you have on the plane and at the airline, probably different situation.

It’s also all about tact and delivery. You can mentor without saying a word. Any FO worth their salt is making a mental list of dos and dont’s from every captain they fly with.

 

[///AMG]

Hah, in a surprising turn of events, I actually knew about the marker test. But only because it initially surprised me too when I saw it done/heard it.

I think the use of checklists in lieu of memory items is probably the correct decision, when there are 150+ lives in the back expecting you to get it right. I see Cherokee's argument, and at some point, your repetition-based memory will turn into an informal flow, but it probably still warrants verifying the written procedure when you are inexperienced/newer to the aircraft.