Airline dilemma

[CFIGUY111]

Hi all. This is my post post on Jetcareers I would like to introduce myself as well as seek your opinion and recommendations on my current dilemma.

I'm Any, have been flight instructing for 3 years now with over 1100 of dual time, 1000 G1000, and 1800 TT. I do have some experience in King Air B200 over this past summer and 60 hrs multi. I am 27 and married living in NJ. No kids as of yet and not planning for now (maybe in the next 3-4 years). Work and education experience as follows: 5 years of mechanical engineering experience and plenty of savings to help me get through the first 1-2 years of regional flying. Graduated from a private university in the North East with 3.1 GPA (was slacking and had to pay bills....lol) and full scholarship. My end goal is Legacy of course but I wouldn't mind flying for a LLC and become sim instructor, base CP, assistant CP or anything related to that.

Okay, now that you guys know what is going on, here is my dilemma. I have offers from both Republic and Piedmont and of course not sure which one to take. I live close to LGA and EWR, very close! PHL on the other hand is close to 2 hrs away. My big concern is schedules at PDT as everything else looks great with salary, equipment, people, and flow (for what it's worth). It seems like I will be looking to fly almost every single weekend and have 11-12 days off even with seniority and very little ability to control the schedule. I spoke to few friends at Republic and they really enjoy 1-2 trips on top of being close to base with 15-17 days off, more control of schedule, however takes a little longer to upgrade (not an issue with me) and no flow. I do have 2 training failures (Private IFR and initial CFI oral through FSDO). I really like the idea of 1-2 day trips which will allow me to be home A LOT and use that time for family activities or work part time job. From what I have heard it is also easy to pick up trips on days off at RAH to credit over 100 hrs if needed.

Any suggestions, pointers, words of wisdom will be much appreciated. Sorry for a long write up.

 

[CFIGUY111]

I meant LCC's

 

[Cazadores]

I don't know much about the two companies, but I'd go with the closest base, generally. Driving 2+ hours just sounds miserable, certainly miserable enough to make me lose motivation to pick up a trip or two. If you bid for and get 4 day trips to avoid the commute you're still looking at 16 hours of windshield time a month....ugh.

Thing is, movement is fast everywhere right now, and relative seniority is likely to put you in a position at either company to have a pretty good schedule fairly quickly. As far as checkride busts, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just make sure to ace your 121 training and checks, and know what you learned over the years and be able to articulate it. Besides, if you want to be a CP office pogue a couple failures are required.....;-)

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[chrisreedrules]

If quality of life is a concern and you want guaranteed days off I would look at PSA. I generally don't recommend commuting but hopping on a flight sounds better than a 2 hour car drive each way. Plus commuting to PSA and being able to take advantage of our SAP is well worth it. I've been doing it for 3 years and I have no regrets. Also, go give Endeavor a look.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You sound like you're pretty close to where I live in NJ. My honest opinion: go to CommutAir. Parking all its props and nearly tripling its E145 fleet and you will get EWR and upgrade fast.

 

[desertdog71]

Forget about flow, airplane types and anything not associated with money and time off. Money and time off are the only things that matter, so which place gives you more of both and you have your answer.

 

[chrisreedrules]

You sound like you're pretty close to where I live in NJ. My honest opinion: go to CommutAir. Parking all its props and nearly tripling its E145 fleet and you will get EWR and upgrade fast.

Bad advice. That place is downgrading Jr D8 CAs right now. A bit of a dumpster fire from my understanding.

 

[chrisreedrules]

Forget about flow, airplane types and anything not associated with money and time off. Money and time off are the only things that matter, so which place gives you more of both and you have your answer.

I don't think choosing an airline based off of a flow is necessarily a bad choice. It generates just that much more movement up the seniority list in addition to normal attrition.

 

[desertdog71]

I don't think choosing an airline based off of a flow is necessarily a bad choice. It generates just that much more movement up the seniority list in addition to normal attrition.

uh huh, I worked there, sell your nonsense elsewhere. Money, time off, and get the hell out is all that matters.

 

[chrisreedrules]

uh huh, I worked there, sell your nonsense elsewhere. Money, time off, and get the hell out is all that matters.

I'm not really selling anything. If I were looking today I would go to Endeavor. That being said I'm very happy where I'm at. Our SAP affords the pilots at PSA QOL almost untouched in this industry. If it weren't for the SAP I wouldn't be here flow or no flow.

 

[CFIGUY111]

Thanks guys! I really don't mind working hard as I work two jobs now pretty much 24/7. However the only thing that really kills it at PDT is that most of the lines are 4 on/ 2 off. I think my wife and I will really hate it if im gone every single weekend and 4 days at a time without really any possibility of varying the achedupe. I think i can fly as much as possible at Republic and still be home 70% of the time. Seems like QOL and pay is the driver for most plus ill be saving commuting expenses such as tolls and gas.

 

[desertdog71]

I'm not really selling anything. If I were looking today I would go to Endeavor. That being said I'm very happy where I'm at. Our SAP affords the pilots at PSA QOL almost untouched in this industry. If it weren't for the SAP I wouldn't be here flow or no flow.

I'm glad its working finally. Have they decided to pay properly or was that given away like everything else?

 

[chrisreedrules]

I'm glad its working finally. Have they decided to pay properly or was that given away like everything else?

Eh... FO pay is decent. But it's based off of retention bonuses that end after a new hire FOs 3rd year on property. But the base rate is about $40 /hour. Upgrades are quick but nothing much has changed as far as reserve. Reserve is still terrible here because of the way our operations run (terrible) and lack of contractual protections. There are over 150+ FOs bypassing upgrade right now because financially it doesn't make much sense to upgrade and go from 14-15 days off /month and crediting 85-100 hours with a $10,000 retention bonus annually to 11 days off and min 75 hours credit. Very little difference in pay but a very large difference in QOL. I'm hoping that will be changing here soon however.

 

[desertdog71]

yeah they didn't like my idea of across the board raises when they came up with the retention bonus BS. Keep up the fight, hold your MEC accountable.

 

[jtrain609]

Thanks guys! I really don't mind working hard as I work two jobs now pretty much 24/7. However the only thing that really kills it at PDT is that most of the lines are 4 on/ 2 off. I think my wife and I will really hate it if im gone every single weekend and 4 days at a time without really any possibility of varying the achedupe. I think i can fly as much as possible at Republic and still be home 70% of the time. Seems like QOL and pay is the driver for most plus ill be saving commuting expenses such as tolls and gas.

Bro, I've got bad news for you. I've been flying airliners for ten years now, and now that I've started over at another airline, I'm not just working weekends, I'm commuting to reserve to work weekends. And I'm doing it with a wife and two kids.

I'm not telling you this to complain, but I'm saying that if you can't stomach the idea, reconsider this industry. This is the reality is that schedules suck when you're junior.

 

[CFIGUY111]

Bro, I've got bad news for you. I've been flying airliners for ten years now, and now that I've started over at another airline, I'm not just working weekends, I'm commuting to reserve to work weekends. And I'm doing it with a wife and two kids.

I'm not telling you this to complain, but I'm saying that if you can't stomach the idea, reconsider this industry. This is the reality is that schedules suck when you're junior.

Based on what I heard about schedules at Republic, it is actually great. Few friends there do 1 or 2 day trips only, doesn't sound too bad if you're local and they are less than a year in. Two other guys I know fly for Delta, one just started 7 month ago and barely flies, not so bad lol I don't have to commute with JFK, TEB, LGA, MMU, and HPN being so close no matter if I fly 121 or 135 so that part gets out of equation if I choose RAH. my concern is doing 4-5 day trips only, of which most mainly including weekends no matter how senior you are (at lest what many people over at PDT are saying). I think there's plenty of room in this industry for everyone to find what suites them best. As to me, i have been working weekends for 3.5 years and don't mind but yes 4/2 is not too attractive plus its a killer if you get junior manned.

 

[Hiboglossi]

You sound like you're pretty close to where I live in NJ. My honest opinion: go to CommutAir. Parking all its props and nearly tripling its E145 fleet and you will get EWR and upgrade fast.

I work at CommutAir and I'm going to have to disagree. With how understaffed we are I think it is unlikely the fleet will actually triple, and although there were fast upgrades for a while we are having downgrades with the Dash 8 displacement. That's on top of the fact that we are pretty much the lowest-paying regional except for Great Lakes and Mesa despite having our bases in the two most expensive metro areas in the nation. We have an exclusive agreement with United, but none of the bonuses like Endeavor and the AA wholly owned regionals have; this means we have pretty much all the disadvantages of being wholly owned (all our eggs are in one nest-box and United could "Comair" us at any time) with none of the advantages (no flow, and no mainline-funded bonuses).

I've also heard some disturbing things about the ERJ training program, although supposedly they've worked out quite a few of the kinks. There was a very high rate of checkride failures and wash-outs for a while; I've also heard of all-day orals and one person who supposedly was told they passed the oral and then got a call the next morning informing them they'd failed (not sure if that's true as I heard it second-hand).

CommutAir has worked out very well for me so far but I've been very lucky with how everything has gone and it will be a very different story for someone getting on now.

 

[Hiboglossi]

uh huh, I worked there, sell your nonsense elsewhere. Money, time off, and get the hell out is all that matters.

Well the flow is one way to "get the hell out" and there is no guarantee anyone will be hired at a major the traditional way. At the mainline level the competition will always exceed the number of available jobs and there will never be room for every pilot who wants a job at the majors. Because a flow could always be cancelled; and will be reversed whenever the mainline partner furloughs, I don't know that I'd necessarily recommend going to a regional just a for a flow. But right now the 3 regionals that have true flows are also pretty much the highest paying (although admittedly much of that is because of retention bonuses), at least for FOs, so it doesn't seem like a bad idea to choose a regional with a flow, like Piedmont. I doubt many people go into the airlines planning to be a regional lifer but there are plenty who can't get hired at mainline. The flow and the bonus money seem like significant points for Piedmont; or for PSA if you decide to interview there.

As for the type of aircraft, I could see an advantage of going to an regional with an all 70-76 seater fleet, since 50-seat jets are more expensive to operate per seat-mile. Actually I remember a few years ago, when oil was more expensive, the airlines said they were planning on eliminating most of the 50-seat jets from their regional feed fleets. Low oil prices have granted the 50-seaters a stay of execution but oil won't stay cheap forever. So going to a regional with an all-50-seat fleet seems like it could lead to a greater chance of being furloughed or even having the company shut down when the 50-seaters are inevitably retired, although with how unstable the regional airline industry is that could always happen anyway. So that definitely seems like a point for Republic. Another advantage of Republic is they operate for three different mainline partners, so there's more diversification if one of those partners goes out of business or decides to drop Republic. I believe Republic also owns quite a bit of their fleet so that would suggest a more stable future as well since they might be able to find other clients to operate those aircraft for if one of their current clients drops them or reduces their flying.

Honestly, @CFIGUY111 , I think either Piedmont or Republic would be an excellent choice.

I know one person mentioned going with the regional with closest bases- keep in mind bases come and go at any airline, especially regionals; and Republic seems to be especially notorious for closing bases frequently. Although I would think LGA and EWR would be relatively safe; and as far as I know both are junior right now.

Best of luck with the decision and with your entry to the airlines.

 

[desertdog71]

I'm sure dude will figure it out. I like money, time off, and hate commuting. I also enjoy hauling rubber dog • out of Hong Kong and sleeping half my shift away but that's just me.

 

[HRDiva]

Bro, I've got bad news for you. I've been flying airliners for ten years now, and now that I've started over at another airline, I'm not just working weekends, I'm commuting to reserve to work weekends. And I'm doing it with a wife and two kids.

I'm not telling you this to complain, but I'm saying that if you can't stomach the idea, reconsider this industry. This is the reality is that schedules suck when you're junior.

Agreed totally. We spent 27 years in 121. Schedules and commuting are part of the deal. Now that my husband was shown the door and made to retire late June he is working six days per week learning a new airplane so he can instruct at Flight Safety.

I work full time and have two evening teaching jobs. We make it work. We always did even while raising offspring.

His rule when he commuted was that it had to be a one leg commute. He made an exception when he was based in SJU at his last 121 carrier. We live near Philly but it was more certain to double commute on his own airline with a guaranteed jumpseat.