chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
No Mercedes no care.
AA Wholly Owned Upgrade/Flow
- Thread starter flybywp
- Start date
JustinS
Well-Known Member
Just saw a screenshot of that email on another site. This is good news. Not only for PSA pilots, but for the industry as a whole. Good for PSA! Hopefully Envoy and Piedmont will follow suit.
EDIT: Just read that Envoy now has also offered the same pay increases as PSA. This is a HUGE game changer for sure.
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JDean3204
Well-Known Member
Hopefully this starts a real upward trend in regional pay. The days of making 25k garbage pay year one should be in the rear view now, especially with cost of living really spiking lately. I Just had to turn down an airline I have wanted to fly for since I was a kid because I would not be able to "afford" the job. 25k could have been doable if rent was still 700, but since the going rate is now 1200 for a one bedroom there is no way...
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
A quick rundown of PSA's new TA:
•Increased First Officer Pay: Starting pay for new-hire First Officers and First Officers who have not yet completed their first year of service will significantly increase from $24.62 per hour to our third-year blended pay rate of $38.50 per hour. Upon reaching their first anniversary, their pay will progress to our anticipated fourth-year blended rate-of-pay of $40.28 per hour. All First Officers currently in their second or third year with PSA will immediately move to our current fourth-year rate-of-pay.
Increased Sign-on Bonus for CRJ Experience: We will continue to offer all new-hire pilots a $15,000 sign-on bonus, with an additional $5,000 for new-hire pilots with a CRJ-type rating.
First Officer Retention Bonus: First Officers hired after May 1, 2016 and First Officers hired under this new Agreement will be eligible to receive a $20,000 retention bonus once they mark their one-year anniversary with the company. The bonus includes a payout of $2,500 per quarter beginning on the first quarter following your anniversary date and continuing over two years or until a First Officer is upgraded to Captain.
Captain Retention Bonus: All Captains on property at the time of signing the Letter of Agreement will receive a $7,500 retention bonus to be paid out in three $2,500 installments. The payments will be made on Jan. 1, 2017, June 1, 2017, and Dec. 1, 2017. If a Captain flows to American before receiving all of the retention bonus, the unpaid portion will be paid when he or she joins American.
...So basically a new hire today will make a little over $50,000 first year ($55,000+ if you already have a CRJ type), and $50,000 - $60,000 /year thereafter. If anyone has any questions about PSA, feel free to PM me.
•Increased First Officer Pay: Starting pay for new-hire First Officers and First Officers who have not yet completed their first year of service will significantly increase from $24.62 per hour to our third-year blended pay rate of $38.50 per hour. Upon reaching their first anniversary, their pay will progress to our anticipated fourth-year blended rate-of-pay of $40.28 per hour. All First Officers currently in their second or third year with PSA will immediately move to our current fourth-year rate-of-pay.
Increased Sign-on Bonus for CRJ Experience: We will continue to offer all new-hire pilots a $15,000 sign-on bonus, with an additional $5,000 for new-hire pilots with a CRJ-type rating.
First Officer Retention Bonus: First Officers hired after May 1, 2016 and First Officers hired under this new Agreement will be eligible to receive a $20,000 retention bonus once they mark their one-year anniversary with the company. The bonus includes a payout of $2,500 per quarter beginning on the first quarter following your anniversary date and continuing over two years or until a First Officer is upgraded to Captain.
Captain Retention Bonus: All Captains on property at the time of signing the Letter of Agreement will receive a $7,500 retention bonus to be paid out in three $2,500 installments. The payments will be made on Jan. 1, 2017, June 1, 2017, and Dec. 1, 2017. If a Captain flows to American before receiving all of the retention bonus, the unpaid portion will be paid when he or she joins American.
...So basically a new hire today will make a little over $50,000 first year ($55,000+ if you already have a CRJ type), and $50,000 - $60,000 /year thereafter. If anyone has any questions about PSA, feel free to PM me.
No, you should PM me.......
ScorpioStinger
Well-Known Member
No PM me, i'm at Envoy....No, you should PM me.......
No PM me, i'm at Envoy....
Well played......
To further clarify for the peanut gallery, if Envoy bases work best for you, PM @ScorpioStinger. If PSA bases, well, you know where to find me.
See my statement above. Currently, upgrades and flows are taking much longer at Envoy. I do expect that to change and become more even as time goes on. To my knowledge Envoy suffers from the same lack of efficiency in trips that we do.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Lack of efficiency?
Thanks...saw the post about the upgrades and flow. That never really interested me all that much, TBH. I think I'll just follow my heart for what I want instead of following a few extra thousand.
Generally speaking, how much a trip is worth per day. If one is trying to fly 85-90 hours a month, it takes a lot of days at 4 hours / day.
At PSA finding a 4 day trip worth more than 20 hours total takes a little bit of work and luck.
Really, more money doesn't interest you? Ok then.....
This is the regionals, get in, get out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Money interests me but I'd rather be happy during the process. I've learned my lesson from taking a hit on my life at the CFI level and just getting in and out. Gotta be a human at some point in the process and enjoy the finer things.
RamRise
Well-Known Member
I'm 250 hours out, and now considering Envoy instead of skywest. Skywest is still 10-15k less than this when all is said and done . It might be better to be stuck at skywest, but on the other hand, the flow to American would be a nice thing to have in your back pocket.
Skywest aspects:good bases, lots of movement, fleet growth, better work rules and soft pay/premium pay opertunties, diverse flying, benefits on all three airlines , 2.5 yr upgrade (into dtw though), lots on seniority list since 2012 though. Financially savvy management.
Envoy: flow to American (legacy with most retirements), 20k signing, 10 k retention bonus, smaller seniorty list, 6yr upgrade(but it should be alot shorter for us), E175 fleet growth, good commuter policy. Union representation. Backed by American.
Food for thought
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ScorpioStinger
Well-Known Member
The best has or will become the worse, and the worse has and will become the best....
This industry & todays occurrences just proves what @Derg doug T and many others over the many years i've been on JC have been saying.
SENIORITY IS EVERYTHING!!!!!
think about that people. Skywest will not have a glorious day forever. No REGIONAL WILL. Not even @Derg's precious Skyway!
He had, luck, timming, and preperation.
Was Delta the best when he got hired? Nope. Did they have the best work rules? Nope. Was his job ever in danger due to 9/11, economic collaps, BK, mergers? Maybe. Did he stick it out? Yup!
Luck, timming, preparation/expectations.
Look at him now, looke at him now, lool at him now..... he's getting pay-perrrrrrr!
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
The flow is great but they try to sell me that it's 5 years with like 2 year flow and going down...when people here say the flow is double digit years and that's all just projections. I think the flow is perfect if you don't have a degree or going back to school at the regionals but I've already got a degree. It just never really interested me much. Seems like it could be amazing or could be a total flop. I was wondering how people at Envoy liked it and how QOL was...besides upgrade times/pay/etc.
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
You aren't wrong. But you're oversimplifying it as well. And, my reply below will honestly be an oversimplification of everything because there are many more factors that go into projected flow times...
Look at it from a numbers perspective. There are 3 legacies with a ton of retirements that many would consider to be the "pinnacle" of an airline pilot career if flying passengers is your thing. Those being United, Delta, and American. They have the best pay, the best contracts, and the best retirement (again, not including fedex and ups, which are also excellent). It would seem that American is doubling down on its commitment to prop up its regional lift through the wholly owned regionals. And they will basically be roughly 65-75% of classes at American going forward. And let's say that another 15-20% of American's classes will be filled by military guys. That leaves 5-10% for off the street "average Joes". Delta traditionally hires almost 50% military. And United I think is around 30%. So if you don't work at a WO, you already eliminate 1/3 choices essentially. And you will be competing with a lot more guys at both Delta and United that are more qualified than you. So from a numbers game perspective, it makes sense to go work for a WO, and keep applying anywhere else you want to go. Many (myself included) have said that the flow can stop. And that is true. However, American has shown that it will likely do what it takes to staff it's WOs. So I wouldn't count on them letting the flow or growth fail.
ScorpioStinger
Well-Known Member
Look at the hiring cycle, position yourself not just to get hired, but to move to heavy Int'l Capt. Stay ahead of the hiring spree.
Each month that goes by in getting into a class is a potential $10k-$15K per month sacrifice, furlough, captain upgrade cut-off, hiring.
Start thinking of "Hiring Cycle" we are just now starting the skyrocket momentum after nearly 15yrs of small hump hiring compared to 1990's.
Preparation, professionalism, safety, network, get involved, advance yourlife outside of aviation, position yourselves wisely (where do you want to be? Are you willing to commute?) Choose regional wisely, learn trends of the past.
Read prospects pay highlights on Jetcareers.com homepage. (Far left tabs... not just forums). Read what it was like a couple of years ago.
Aviation is a rotating planet, yes things change in the world, but somethings, some principlea are fundamental.
Hiring practices are changing.... only 3 legacies remain, figure it out or get left behind in arrogance.
Each month that goes by in getting into a class is a potential $10k-$15K per month sacrifice, furlough, captain upgrade cut-off, hiring.
Start thinking of "Hiring Cycle" we are just now starting the skyrocket momentum after nearly 15yrs of small hump hiring compared to 1990's.
Preparation, professionalism, safety, network, get involved, advance yourlife outside of aviation, position yourselves wisely (where do you want to be? Are you willing to commute?) Choose regional wisely, learn trends of the past.
Read prospects pay highlights on Jetcareers.com homepage. (Far left tabs... not just forums). Read what it was like a couple of years ago.
Aviation is a rotating planet, yes things change in the world, but somethings, some principlea are fundamental.
Hiring practices are changing.... only 3 legacies remain, figure it out or get left behind in arrogance.
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
Nothing you said here addressed my reply to you above. And why couldn't any of this be done from one of the AAG WOs?
This is all assuming the 3 WOs can continually hire enough to feed the AA beast. It's not likely that they can, in which case the off the street number goes up significantly. Of course, that's just looking at it from a pure numbers perspective.
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
That is one possible outcome. However like I said above, this recent development shows that AAG still believes it is significantly cheaper to pay its WOs more money than to either farm the flying out or bring the aircraft to mainline... And it will still remain significantly cheaper to do so when they raise pay and offer even higher bonuses again. They are going to invest what it takes to staff us until it doesn't make sense to fly the 76 seaters at a regional anymore. I'm not trying to paint an incredibly rosy picture of the WOs, because we all certainly have our issues. However I don't think they are a bad career choice and I also don't think that the flow is going to just go away as some imply.
The question is, why would you?
It's a great circular argument:
You: Because, flow.
Me: Flows suck.
You: But what if it works.
Me: History tells us they never have.