DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Well, seeing how it's in the MEL, that is what one would expect.
757 A/T failure
- Thread starter MikeD
- Start date
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Mount Diablo is a long ass way from SFO, relatively speaking, and largely irrelevant. Airline ops aren't typically big on area familiarity—just procedures that are intended to keep things safe regardless of familiarity. Sector altitudes, minimum safe altitudes, vectors to published segments, and so on.
This guy may work for a Major League Big Important AAA airline, but at the end of the day, we're all kinda the same rats in the same race, subject to the same pressures and capable of the same mistakes. He felt compromised, he ultimately arrived at a decision—one, I'll add, that's self-supporting. (If you find yourself "behind the power curve" on decisionmaking, it's a good indication that you're not where you want to be, and it's probably a good idea to get on the ground.)
I didn't listen. I don't have any interest in listening to what was likely assumed to be a somewhat private conversation between a crew and their company, and I have no interest on slagging on another crew. But I absolutely 100% guarantee that if you do this business long enough, you'll have had moments of diminished performance which, if trotted out in front of all of your peers, would be quite embarrassing. If you think not, perhaps you're not as self-aware as you think you are. After a year and a half of 3am reserve (equivalent to 11pm reserve for most people), I've definitely seen ways my own performance can deteriorate that I wouldn't expect.
Just culture requires collective participation; people who are "too cool" for it pose the biggest dangers.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
The way a lot of people in this thread have reacted to this makes me hope they aren't union reps (or CPs) The number one reason unions exist in aviation is so that safety is prioritized. People need to be allowed to error on the side of safety.
If you actually look at the reaction of non-pilots it seems to be positive. Why are pilots bashing on pilots for erroring on the side of safety? We are missing a bunch of details and the fatigue call could be 110% legit.
The Mx call was 110% legit, returning if he didn’t feel that taking the aircraft was safe for that long of a leg. That’s your call as a Capt. Why keep having to “shop around” for further reasons and justifications, especially one (fatigue) that isn’t happening right then as he was on the frequency, but the Mx issue was happening? Unless you are wishy washy in decision making in the first place. His Mx issue justification was fine, not sure why he started down some rabbit hole he didn’t need to start going down.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
If the critique is to be more assertive then that is all that needs to be said.
You made a choice, stick to it. You only dig a hole for yourself when you start to try and vote by committee with unrelated persons, or try to have others validate your decisions. The decision was sound. Let dispatch know what you have, what you are doing if it can’t be fixed, and what you need now.
I was just there two nights ago. Show me Mt. Diablo labeled on a Jepp chart...Isn’t OAK a hub for you guys? How do ya not know Mt Diablo.
Just look east
Some of us goto more than 3 places.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Has anyone heard of an inflight divert due to fatigue.....ever? I see many people defending this. Perhaps it's a brave new era we are embarking upon. Just want to confirm this Delta crew was the first (that anyone has ever heard of). Maybe this will be commonplace going forward. Who knows.
I haven't heard of it. Not necessarily "defending" it just pointing out none of us were in that cockpit. The only brave new era is the internet can now judge our every radio comm without context.
I see and understand what you are saying. I even agree with you that it could be turned back on you if there is an incident, but it happens frequently, and the company appreciates the heads up to cover the flying.
But if something goes wrong it will be the feds and not the company.
Hiboglossi
The Most Depressing Person
Same. Granted I left the regionals over a year ago so maybe things have worsened, but I never encountered anything like what🦈💜 describes, or heard of anything like that happening, when I was at C5.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
There have often been the "haves" and the "have nots" here, but it's been way worse lately. We also have no ability to change our schedule, take vacation, drop trips or reserve days, or otherwise do anything other than work the 18 days we're scheduled to work. In my case, burnout is severe and I've been legitimately sick/exhausted a bunch, which has driven my reliability number down. No option for any sort of personal leave or anything, either. Basically, I just have to wait until this schedule causes me to have some major medical issue before I can get any time off, which is ... slightly demoralizing, to put it mildly.
This is definitely not unique to my airline, and not everyone at my airline is facing the same problems*. Lineholders have substantially more protections, but our reserve policies just feel punitive.
* That said, there are 20-30+ year lifer captains who are leaving early because they can't deal with this anymore, either, so it's not just juniors.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I only learned of it being based in flying into/outta San Fran at VX. Going eastbound on the Trukn departure. I would imagine if you operate into/out of OAK, you’re bound to have some FO remark about Mt Diablo.
Or not. Sorry, no refunds on JC.com
Rosstafari
Likes tacos
Someone can correct me if they’d like, but my understanding has been that signing fit for duty is an acknowledgement that you’re able to complete the entire flight, regardless of any emergent conditions that may occur. Even if you’ve had a crappy day up till that point.
Not like you can tap out as fatigued if the fire light starts hollering.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Basically. It’s like you’re signing you are fit right now, and reasonably expected to be fit for the remaining expected flight block time.
JustinS
Well-Known Member
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
That isn't a Jepp chart.
Funny story...
My very first student when I got to ATP Phoenix was a retired AA MD 11 captain who had come to get his CFI to teach his grandson to fly and had failed his oral over reading a vfr sectional. He hadn't seen one in 30+ years of commercial flying and didn't remember (or ever know) a lot of the symbology.
A300Capt
Freight Dawg
I can certainly relate to his struggle...
