US Senate panel votes to reject hiking pilot retirement age

[Bob Ridpath]

Quality would go way down, and wait times would go way up. And I don’t mean just for ER. My maternal grandfather passed away in 2018 but he had his heart surgery postponed twice, and each time he was pushed off by several months. At least here, once you’re scheduled, barring an extreme situation, you’re getting it done. In the Canadian case, more “important” cases showed up that day and his surgery was post poned.


And I don’t trust the government to run us in a single payer system. About the only thing they do right is USPS. Have you ever taken a trip to the DMV? The DGAF attitude. Imagine that now as your kid faces a surgery and you’re dealing with a robot who doesn’t GAF and has a guaranteed govt salary and retirement.

Kinda' what I have seen develop within the existing system over several decades here. Appointments that have to be scheduled for office visits months out, two to three hours beyond appointment times to be seen in an office setting (and, by the way, you'll owe your co-pay if you don't cancel or try to reschedule 24 hours in advance) and then seen oft-times by a PA rather than the actual doctor. Urgent Care is hit-or-miss with hours-long waiting (or not) depending upon when you go. Hospitalized and want your own primary care physician involved? They can visit but even with hospital privileges, there is a "Hospitalist" (doctor charged with primary direction of one's case during admission). Talk about people who DGAF? Several I've met o'er the years could show ANY DMV employee what real attitude and DGAF actually means.

I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that you've never had to fight with an insurance company to pay for "covered" treatment, surgery or medication because a nurse with no connection to the patient in a far-away office made the decision that something wasn't "medically necessary. Over some decades, I've had to fight long-term battles to have a son's expensive treatment finally paid for, and thrice for personal issues. It may not be as challenging in the clearer waters closer to the top of the food-chain; paddling around closer to the bottom (tho' not there yet), I'd suggest that the experience may not be the same. Interestingly, I have three dear friends who, with time and desire, made the jump from volunteer emergency field medicine to formal hospital/office medicine. We meet for breakfast or lunch from time-to-time and - as much as they enjoy/love their work - to a person each one feels strongly that the system is broken

I have no objective stats to bring forth but only personal anecdotal evidence, as you so often share. The sample is small, just three- families/friends around the world (Canada, England and Germany) and -despite high taxes- they all are satisfied with the medical provisions within their countries and look at what ours has devolved to with astonishment.

I tend to agree with them given my personal experience in this arena within the Republic.

YMMV.

 

[MikeD]

If our health care is so great, why is our life expectancy lower than most (any?) other developed country, and falling?

Americans in general don’t seem to take very good care of themselves health-wise, for one. Lifestyle, food choices, unhealthy vices, amongst many reasons.

 

[Roger Roger]

Americans in general don’t seem to take very good care of themselves health-wise, for one. Lifestyle, food choices, unhealthy vices, amongst many reasons.

Right on cue! You think people in other developed nations are somehow fundamentally different that they don’t fall into those traps? Or maaaayyybe their societies are better structured to keep people out of those problems.

 

[MikeD]

Right on cue! You think people in other developed nations are somehow fundamentally different that they don’t fall into those traps? Or maaaayyybe their societies are better structured to keep people out of those problems.

Right on cue?

I think people in general make bad choices for themselves. Doesn’t matter their background or whether rich or poor. Look how many rich ass airline pilots are almost like a walking cardiac arrest about to happen. It isn’t like they can’t afford to make better choices. So yeah, some people have limited choices in life and that’s understandable, but others do have many choice options and still manage to make the worst for themselves.

 

[Roger Roger]

Right on cue?

I think people in general make bad choices for themselves. Doesn’t matter their background or whether rich or poor. Look how many rich ass airline pilots are almost like a walking cardiac arrest about to happen. It isn’t like they can’t afford to make better choices. So yeah, some people have limited choices in life and that’s understandable, but others do have many choice options and still manage to make the worst for themselves.

this is nonsense. People are people everywhere. There isn’t anything special about the humans in the US or their intelligence or their choices that is making them less healthy. It’s all about the systems we’ve built around our lifestyles, nutrition, environmental/consumer/workplace safety, health care, etc. That’s akin to saying that “corpies” are bad because they crash for dumb reasons, while ignoring the layers and layers of safety systems in place at airlines that make it stupidly simple for every pilot to make safe choices.

 

[MikeD]

this is nonsense. People are people everywhere. There isn’t anything special about the humans in the US or their intelligence or their choices that is making them less healthy. It’s all about the systems we’ve built around our lifestyles, nutrition, environmental/consumer/workplace safety, health care, etc. That’s akin to saying that “corpies” are bad because they crash for dumb reasons, while ignoring the layers and layers of safety systems in place at airlines that make it stupidly simple for every pilot to make safe choices.

So no one anywhere, ever makes bad choices for themselves? It’s only about what government programs there are? Thats like saying “It’s not my fault I crashed the plane. It’s the FAAs fault for not creating more FARs to prevent me from having done it!”

People make choices, good and bad for themselves. Daily. Culturally, I see more lazy Americans than of those in some other countries. Perhaps there are some countries worse than us, but there are definitely some better than us in this regard. Part and parcel from the government programs there are in existence.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Kinda' what I have seen develop within the existing system over several decades here. Appointments that have to be scheduled for office visits months out, two to three hours beyond appointment times to be seen in an office setting (and, by the way, you'll owe your co-pay if you don't cancel or try to reschedule 24 hours in advance) and then seen oft-times by a PA rather than the actual doctor. Urgent Care is hit-or-miss with hours-long waiting (or not) depending upon when you go. Hospitalized and want your own primary care physician involved? They can visit but even with hospital privileges, there is a "Hospitalist" (doctor charged with primary direction of one's case during admission). Talk about people who DGAF? Several I've met o'er the years could show ANY DMV employee what real attitude and DGAF actually means.

I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that you've never had to fight with an insurance company to pay for "covered" treatment, surgery or medication because a nurse with no connection to the patient in a far-away office made the decision that something wasn't "medically necessary. Over some decades, I've had to fight long-term battles to have a son's expensive treatment finally paid for, and thrice for personal issues. It may not be as challenging in the clearer waters closer to the top of the food-chain; paddling around closer to the bottom (tho' not there yet), I'd suggest that the experience may not be the same. Interestingly, I have three dear friends who, with time and desire, made the jump from volunteer emergency field medicine to formal hospital/office medicine. We meet for breakfast or lunch from time-to-time and - as much as they enjoy/love their work - to a person each one feels strongly that the system is broken

I have no objective stats to bring forth but only personal anecdotal evidence, as you so often share. The sample is small, just three- families/friends around the world (Canada, England and Germany) and -despite high taxes- they all are satisfied with the medical provisions within their countries and look at what ours has devolved to with astonishment.

I tend to agree with them given my personal experience in this arena within the Republic.

YMMV.

I’ve had those battles too. Without getting too much into it, it’s a thing for my son that needs to be checked every 2-3 yrs. And every time, it gets denied and needs a medical necessity, despite the Doc saying it’s a needed followup.


A complete PITA.


To all your points, yes, delays are getting worse. It now imagine when healthcare is “free” for anyone. Delays won’t get better!

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Americans in general don’t seem to take very good care of themselves health-wise, for one. Lifestyle, food choices, unhealthy vices, amongst many reasons.

Why are people laughing at this post? MikeD is dead on. We are a very unhealthy nation. Have you seen the average weights for both men and women?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Money.

Specifically, health care cost per capita.

I presume you can Google how well (or poorly, actually) our health care system quality compares to other developed countries?

But it’s fake money. Hospital bills $550 for a needle and $800 for phlebotomist. “Allowed insurance charge” for both is $1.50 and $150 respectively, and then patient pays ~10-20% for a total of about $20-30.


Depending on your insurance.

A lot of “healthcare costs” are just fluffed up numbers. No one pays those figures.


If you were a no-insurance person, they wouldn’t charge you $1,350. You’ll work with the hospital finance department and come up with a number.

 

[Roger Roger]

So no one anywhere, ever makes bad choices for themselves? It’s only about what government programs there are? Thats like saying “It’s not my fault I crashed the plane. It’s the FAAs fault for not creating more FARs to prevent me from having done it!”

People make choices, good and bad for themselves. Daily. Culturally, I see more lazy Americans than of those in some other countries. Perhaps there are some countries worse than us, but there are definitely some better than us in this regard. Part and parcel from the government programs there are in existence.

Correct. Very few of our “choices” are actually conscious choices, and especially when it comes to lifestyle things like exercise, diet, transportation most people do not possess the innate ability to shift out of what they grew up with, even if their life situation (housing, income, work schedule, location, etc) allows it.

And yes absolutely our cultural values as expressed by government programs have a huge effect on our life expectancy. Hell deaths of kids tank average life expectancy quite rapidly and the 2 leading causes of death among kids are things Americans absolutely love beyond any other developed country, cars and guns.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

If our health care is so great, why is our life expectancy lower than most (any?) other developed country, and falling?

Velveeta

 

[MikeD]

Correct. Very few of our “choices” are actually conscious choices, and especially when it comes to lifestyle things like exercise, diet, transportation most people do not possess the innate ability to shift out of what they grew up with, even if their life situation (housing, income, work schedule, location, etc) allows it.

And yes absolutely our cultural values as expressed by government programs have a huge effect on our life expectancy. Hell deaths of kids tank average life expectancy quite rapidly and the 2 leading causes of death among kids are things Americans absolutely love beyond any other developed country, cars and guns.

Oh really? So you’re telling me that some well off rich dude who has everything……house, car, everything; yet has a cocaine addiction; that it’s the fault of some government program that he’s that way? That it’s not his own poor personal choices? That there is no such thing as personal accountability?

My FAA example from above is even more applicable, using this logic. No one is responsible for anything in their lives. It’s all someone or something else’s fault in all cases? That’s not true in the least. Sure, there are people who have limited choices in life due to their individual situations, and I’ve readily acknowledged that, but that is certainly not all of society.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

If our health care is so great, why is our life expectancy lower than most (any?) other developed country, and falling?

Is this a serious question?


Because the USA is one of the most unhealthiest countries for a 1st world nation. Our diet sucks, people don’t exercise, etc

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Correct. Very few of our “choices” are actually conscious choices, and especially when it comes to lifestyle things like exercise, diet, transportation most people do not possess the innate ability to shift out of what they grew up with, even if their life situation (housing, income, work schedule, location, etc) allows it.

Huh? Can’t shift out of getting off your lazy ass and working out? You’re just making excuses now. Or eating junk food all the time?

And yes absolutely our cultural values as expressed by government programs have a huge effect on our life expectancy. Hell deaths of kids tank average life expectancy quite rapidly and the 2 leading causes of death among kids are things Americans absolutely love beyond any other developed country, cars and guns.

What culture values expressed by government programs?

 

[Roger Roger]

Oh really? So you’re telling me that some well off rich dude who has everything……house, car, everything; yet has a cocaine addiction; that it’s the fault of some government program that he’s that way? That it’s not his own poor personal choices? That there is no such thing as personal accountability?

My FAA example from above is even more applicable, using this logic. No one is responsible for anything in their lives. It’s all someone or something else’s fault in all cases? That’s not true in the least. Sure, there are people who have limited choices in life due to their individual situations, and I’ve readily acknowledged that, but that is certainly not all of society.

Well, first mistake you’re making is you’re isolating it to “the government”. But yes, that dude probably had very little choice in the matter. Him ending up addicted is very likely a combination of the environment in which he was raised, which set him down the path of the social circles or the personal circumstances that led him into drug use in the first place, and accidents of genetics and brain chemistry (again greatly effected by his environment growing up) that determine how addictive said substance is to him.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Well, first mistake you’re making is you’re isolating it to “the government”. But yes, that dude probably had very little choice in the matter. Him ending up addicted is very likely a combination of the environment in which he was raised, which set him down the path of the social circles or the personal circumstances that led him into drug use in the first place, and accidents of genetics and brain chemistry (again greatly effected by his environment growing up) that determine how addictive said substance is to him.

You are the kind of person that can justify anything?


“Well, old Jim only felt up, sexually abused, raped, and killed 6 yr old Jenny, because he was sexually abused and beaten by his own father and that’s all he knew growing up.”



Meanwhile, the rest of us sane members of society want Jim sent to the electric chair. And even that would be too good for him.

 

[mwflyer]

Kinda' what I have seen develop within the existing system over several decades here. Appointments that have to be scheduled for office visits months out, two to three hours beyond appointment times to be seen in an office setting (and, by the way, you'll owe your co-pay if you don't cancel or try to reschedule 24 hours in advance) and then seen oft-times by a PA rather than the actual doctor. Urgent Care is hit-or-miss with hours-long waiting (or not) depending upon when you go.

Yep. Every time my wife or I make an appointment (six months out) due to availability, not choice, we always sarcastically say “ thank God healthcare isn’t free, otherwise it would take months to get in to see the doctor!”

 

[AA34]

Just to recap:

1. America doesn’t have good healthcare
2. The DMV is a pleasant experience
3. America is healthier than other nations
4. Folks can’t consciously decide to exercise

Y’all are burning for an argument with these takes!!

 

[///AMG]

Well, first mistake you’re making is you’re isolating it to “the government”. But yes, that dude probably had very little choice in the matter. Him ending up addicted is very likely a combination of the environment in which he was raised, which set him down the path of the social circles or the personal circumstances that led him into drug use in the first place, and accidents of genetics and brain chemistry (again greatly effected by his environment growing up) that determine how addictive said substance is to him.

I think the introduction of drugs here was maybe not the best parallel, but just take obesity/general health woes. There are some who are genetically predisposed to be of an unhealthy weight, and it is a bit of a mountain for them to overcome to ever be healthy. I get that. But there are tons of others who just choose the easier lifestyle choices. I know because i am probably in this category. I could stand to lose 25 lbs for sure. And at our shop, I keep flying with these CA’s who are super tight on their physical fitness, diet, etc. I flew with a gal who runs ultra marathons. She ran 100 miles through the Gobi desert last year, without sleeping. Most other dudes i fly with at a minimum, work out daily, during our overnights. I dont really know if this is a US only problem, but those of us in the US are certainly not helping ourselves (as a whole). It is kind of amazing and surprising that a group of 121 captains, many of which are quite senior, would actually encourage me to have better lifestyle habits (without ever actually trying to encourage me). Of course they, and you and me, have a big incentive to live healthy lives…….you stay healthy enough to keep that medical, and you get to keep making stacks and stacks of money. Many Americans dont have that incentive.

 

[derg]

It is life changing. I’m not a bubbly extrovert, but most everyone has been so much more positive since I’ve upgraded. Plus, my jokes are funnier.

Well, they're not really funnier!