Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Who were the companies. I know of one that wanted to offer 2nd year pay to a few new hires.
Has the Regional Bubble Burst?
- Thread starter seaav8tor
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Who were the companies. I know of one that wanted to offer 2nd year pay to a few new hires.
JOEFRIDAY2
Well-Known Member
Well since you asked here is the Delta Captain pay rates just above the Delta First Officer pay rates:
These charts are matched up equipment for equipment. If you look at first year starting pay on a DC9 for a F/O it is $54. This tops out to $103 for a F/O at year 12.
However if you look at the 1st year Captain on the DC9 the starting pay is $138 and it tops out to $151.
So the STARTING PAY at $138 for a Captain at Delta is higher than the ENDING pay for a First Officer at Delta. Same airline. Same equipment. The ending pay for the First Officer NEVER gets to the starting pay for the Captain at the same airline flying the same aircraft.
In fact if you look at all of the top F/O hourly rates at Delta you will see that every one of those rates is LOWER than every starting Captain's hourly rate at Delta.
That's just one airline example. Some may chose to argue this 16 different ways. Some will say that F/O's don't stay F/O's for long. But there are airlines where F/O's stay in the right seat more than 12 years which is the top out pay in this industry. So the low starting F/O pay can come back to bite you in the rear end.
But the fact remains that if that $54 starting pay were higher then the ending pay would also be higher.
Joe
Sadly, I'll call you typical of the industry.
"I got mine pull up the ladder"........
Most pilots "get it" that there is a finite am out of money that will be given out for pilot pay. How it gets divided up is where the fight breaks out. I have personally witnessed a Captain boast of making over 250k per year in one breath then express his opposition for a FO pay bump unless he got something. The FO pay ranges in question were FOs making less less than 30k to a little over 50k.
Greed is an amazing force.
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
That still shows no correlation whatsoever between starting pay and max ending pay!!! There's not even a correlation between year one pay and the rest of the pay scale generally. Since you used Delta, also notice that no matter what airframe you fly you will make the same first year pay as an FO. A lot of that is due to the fact that your first year at an airline is your probationary period. The pay is lower for every airline out there. First year CA pay is irrelevant (you do not have a street hire CAs at a major) but it follows the normal pay trends.
As far as the creation of payscales go FO was generally a percentage of CA pay so therefore FO pay would never really reach CA pay, unless they extended to scales out for a ridiculous number of years. Nor should FO pay ever reach the same amount as CA pay on that airframe. It's not a consideration of what seat you may be in it's a consideration of the role and responsibility that goes with the seat.
As far as the creation of payscales go FO was generally a percentage of CA pay so therefore FO pay would never really reach CA pay, unless they extended to scales out for a ridiculous number of years. Nor should FO pay ever reach the same amount as CA pay on that airframe. It's not a consideration of what seat you may be in it's a consideration of the role and responsibility that goes with the seat.
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
There is no I got mine pull up the ladder about it. If one year/group gets a raise everyone gets a raise. Do you see anyone advocating cutting year one pay? That would be pulling up the ladder, not the issue we've been discussing.
Patrick
Well-Known Member
There's something REALLY wrong with that.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Based on what logic? Pay is always based on what you negotiate, either as an individual, or through a union. Longevity-based pay is somewhat unique to the airlines. In many industries, new hires tend to get paid more than the veteran workers (certainly true in my business).
First year pay being low? I wouldn't say that is a huge problem - you are only a first year employee once. It may discourage people from changing jobs, but that is about it.
Lots of other jobs start out with low pay. High paid doctors were low paid interns once. Hell, I make a lot of money now, but when I got started in this business, I made $200/week, doing essentially the same job.
JOEFRIDAY2
Well-Known Member
And people blame the airlines for the low starting pay in this industry.
It's not the airlines keeping the pay down--it's the pilots.
Joe
There are really 2 unrelated problems.
1. The amount of money management is willing to pay for pilot labor is insufficient to attract and retain a professional pilot force thus creating a revolving door for most flying positions.
2. The amount of money that is offered gets divided up in the most bizarre schemes known to exist in the US labor force.
aloft
New Member
Dude, if differentiating yourself from your peers to get ahead is important to you, I think you might be in the wrong business.
Exactly. Military and commercial flying are built on standardization. Differentiation, works perhaps in many other, most other, or perhaps all other endeavors but finds a cold reception in the aviator realm.
There are 3 buckets to grasp.
1. Things that work
2. Things that don't work
3. Things that are unknown
We learn, polish, and use things out of bucket # 1. Bucket 2 and 3 are left alone.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one, if C150J is who I think he is, he's in the training department as well as holding a very important and safety related position for the union.
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