Virgin America pilot payraise

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

JetBlue has been riding ALPA coattails, as I said. When HAL and ALA signed new deals, JetBlue management raised their pay (still not to the same rate, but higher than they had been) to try to stave off a union drive. The same thing that Skywest management does. Always ride the ALPA coattails, never contribute to the cause.

Skywest is the most successful regional airline in recent history, and arguably, of all time in the regional industry. Plenty of ALPA regionals have failed while Skywest has succeeded. Remember, ALPA regionals took concessions while Skywest stood its ground. Today it is one of the highest paying regionals. You can't blame coattails on this one. In fact, a mjoarity of ALPA regional carriers need to catch up to Skywest. The ALPA coattails? Who was there for the ALPA Midwest Express pilots? How about the Aloha pilots?

What on Earth are you talking about? I voted NO on the second deal, and I vocally opposed both deals. I didn't "settle" for anything. Get your facts straight.

It seems you interfered with the SLI deal, and from what I hear, you tried to interfere with the thought in mind of stalling it to force arbitration. Your mingling in the SLI business got you recalled. Until you address this, I stand by this statement because this is available online (http://citruspilot.blogspot.com/2011/08/latest-update-from-linden-er-ortscheid.html) You failed your pilot group and were appropriately recalled.

According to what you wrote:

"It didn't have a B scale to fly the same airplane as you do now.

I'm quite happy with my compensation package. It wasn't about the money. Contracts are temporary. Seniority is forever.

Sounds like a yes vote. But I believe it if you said you voted no. Only arbitration could have gotten you something even remotely fair on the Airtran side. You "sound" knowledgeable about union matters, how is it that SWAPA and their management outsmarted you?

 

[derg]

Isn't being a successful regional like winning the 50 yard dash during the Special Olympics?

(runs for cover )

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Isn't being a successful regional like winning the 50 yard dash during the Special Olympics?

(runs for cover )

It is. And Skywest wins every year. I say good for them.

 

[mikecweb]

My low cost carrier, whose costs aren't that really low but has low fares that aren't really lower than the legacies, is better than your low cost carrier, whose costs aren't really low but has low fares that aren't really lower than the legacies.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Skywest is the most successful regional airline in recent history, and arguably, of all time in the regional industry. Plenty of ALPA regionals have failed while Skywest has succeeded. Remember, ALPA regionals took concessions while Skywest stood its ground. Today it is one of the highest paying regionals. You can't blame coattails on this one. In fact, a mjoarity of ALPA regional carriers need to catch up to Skywest. The ALPA coattails? Who was there for the ALPA Midwest Express pilots? How about the Aloha pilots?

Yes, Skywest has been riding ALPA coattails for years. Without ALPA, Skywest pilots would be making $30k/year in the left seat and getting 5 days off. If you believe otherwise, you're a gullible fool.

It seems you interfered with the SLI deal, and from what I hear, you tried to interfere with the thought in mind of stalling it to force arbitration. Your mingling in the SLI business got you recalled. Until you address this, I stand by this statement because this is available online (http://citruspilot.blogspot.com/2011/08/latest-update-from-linden-er-ortscheid.html) You failed your pilot group and were appropriately recalled.

Wrong. The Merger Committee themselves even said that those claims were false. I was recalled because of bad blood between two political factions on the MEC, and my faction fell into the minority after a new set of elections. Happens quite frequently in ALPA politics. The MEC just made those false claims to cover their own asses and make it appear as though it wasn't all personal and political. But believe whatever you like.

Sounds like a yes vote. But I believe it if you said you voted no. Only arbitration could have gotten you something even remotely fair on the Airtran side. You "sound" knowledgeable about union matters, how is it that SWAPA and their management outsmarted you?

Outsmarted me? I wasn't involved. I was recalled long before any of that happened, remember? As a line pilot, I was advocating taking it to arbitration. But yes, the MEC was certainly outsmarted by SWA.

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

My company offered me a sack of money... but it's to heavy and I dont want to carry it. Instead I'm going to have the union turn it down for me and then I'm going to the bar and complain that I'm underpaid...

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

Isn't being a successful regional like winning the 50 yard dash during the Special Olympics?

(runs for cover )

You ever see that Southpark episode?

 

[jtrain609]

Yes, Skywest has been riding ALPA coattails for years. Without ALPA, Skywest pilots would be making $30k/year in the left seat and getting 5 days off. If you believe otherwise, you're a gullible fool.

My understanding of what SAPA is, and what it can do has evolved over the years. Put simply there is no non union carrier at Inc.

 

[derg]

Skywest is the most successful regional airline in recent history, and arguably, of all time in the regional industry. Plenty of ALPA regionals have failed while Skywest has succeeded. Remember, ALPA regionals took concessions while Skywest stood its ground. Today it is one of the highest paying regionals. You can't blame coattails on this one. In fact, a mjoarity of ALPA regional carriers need to catch up to Skywest. The ALPA coattails? Who was there for the ALPA Midwest Express pilots? How about the Aloha pilots?



It seems you interfered with the SLI deal, and from what I hear, you tried to interfere with the thought in mind of stalling it to force arbitration. Your mingling in the SLI business got you recalled. Until you address this, I stand by this statement because this is available online (http://citruspilot.blogspot.com/2011/08/latest-update-from-linden-er-ortscheid.html) You failed your pilot group and were appropriately recalled.

According to what you wrote:


Sounds like a yes vote. But I believe it if you said you voted no. Only arbitration could have gotten you something even remotely fair on the Airtran side. You "sound" knowledgeable about union matters, how is it that SWAPA and their management outsmarted you?

The weak thing about anonymous blogs written about actual people is fact-checking and the permanence of internet.

So we have you, an "anonymous" guy using an "anonymous" blog authors take on an issue which (a) you don't have any first hand experience with with the arrow in your quiver being another anonymous person who may or may not be giving out specious information and presenting them as fact.

Was this supposed to be an "oh snap" moment or something? It's not.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

My understanding of what SAPA is, and what it can do has evolved over the years. Put simply there is no non union carrier at Inc.

Wow. Their kool aid must be just as strong as SWA's.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Wow. Their kool aid must be just as strong as SWA's.

The Company views the Pilot Policy Manual (and the InFlight equivalent, which I believe is still called the Crewmember Policy Manual) as a binding contract, and it may well be. SAPA is viewed by the Company as the official representative organization of the pilot group, and they may well be.

The question has not yet been legally decided and I'm not sure I want to be around for it to be decided, but I can tell you for free that if YOU ignore the PPM as a pilot, you'll be in just as much trouble as a unionized pilot would be for ignoring the conditions in their PWA/CBA. Our previous president, in fact, had gained considerable headway for a complete rewrite of the PPM in contractual language, by the professionals, with fewer loopholes and ambiguities. (We'll see if the new guy makes that happen.)

Whether or not it is as well enforced as a contract would be at an ALPA carrier (let's talk about reserve sometime) is a whole 'nother matter, as is NMB recognition. If you have a set of terms and conditions that specify how those terms and conditions are to be modified, you have slightly more hurdles than "This is the new employee manual; sign it or be fired" to jump over when it comes to modifications. Terms and conditions for pilots are NOT subject to arbitrary amendment here.

Using duck typing, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. That quack mightn't be as potent as other ducks, but it quacks.

 

[amorris311]

Skywest is the most successful regional airline in recent history, and arguably, of all time in the regional industry. Plenty of ALPA regionals have failed while Skywest has succeeded. Remember, ALPA regionals took concessions while Skywest stood its ground. Today it is one of the highest paying regionals. You can't blame coattails on this one. In fact, a mjoarity of ALPA regional carriers need to catch up to Skywest. The ALPA coattails? Who was there for the ALPA Midwest Express pilots? How about the Aloha pilots?

I think you are having a hard time separating a union from a company's upper management. Both Aloha and Midwest management failed in certain aspects and as a result closed the doors. I was actually there for the Midwest closure. I don't understand why you think that is ALPA's fault? ALPA does not sign the check, they just make sure the decimal point moves further right.

 

[dasleben]

Without ALPA, Skywest pilots would be making $30k/year in the left seat and getting 5 days off. If you believe otherwise, you're a gullible fool.

C'mon now, I support the union as much as the next guy, but that's just absurd. SkyWest has higher pay rates and better work rules than a number of ALPA carriers.

 

[turbomax97]

Isn't being a successful regional like winning the 50 yard dash during the Special Olympics?

(runs for cover )

I know I may have a little bit of a Texan drawl but come onnnnn!








Or is it because I have problems tying my shoe laces and dribble water when I take a sip?

 

[Maurus]

My name's Lance and I like nuts.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

The weak thing about anonymous blogs written about actual people is fact-checking and the permanence of internet.

So we have you, an "anonymous" guy using an "anonymous" blog authors take on an issue which (a) you don't have any first hand experience with with the arrow in your quiver being another anonymous person who may or may not be giving out specious information and presenting them as fact.

Was this supposed to be an "oh snap" moment or something? It's not.

That letter was signed by the Chairman MEC. If it is false in any way against a certain member posting here, then that member has a case for libel. Best case scenario to go through Pro Standards, worse case the MEC chairman lands on HR/management desk for libel/harassment. In any case, I appreciate the member clarifying above. I dont think he should let this slide if it indeed is blatantly false.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Yes, Skywest has been riding ALPA coattails for years. Without ALPA, Skywest pilots would be making $30k/year in the left seat and getting 5 days off. If you believe otherwise, you're a gullible fool.

Skywest is the highest paying regional, above regional ALPA carriers. You cant follow someone when they are behind and underneath you.

Wrong. The Merger Committee themselves even said that those claims were false. I was recalled because of bad blood between two political factions on the MEC, and my faction fell into the minority after a new set of elections. Happens quite frequently in ALPA politics. The MEC just made those false claims to cover their own asses and make it appear as though it wasn't all personal and political. But believe whatever you like.

Thanks for clarifying. Sounds like you'd have a case against that MEC Chairman.

Outsmarted me? I wasn't involved. I was recalled long before any of that happened, remember? As a line pilot, I was advocating taking it to arbitration. But yes, the MEC was certainly outsmarted by SWA.

Thats a shame, I know how you'd feel. 9E was outsmarted by 9L and XJ.

 

[jtrain609]

Skywest is the highest paying regional, above regional ALPA carriers. You cant follow someone when they are behind and underneath you.

No they're not. XJT and air Wisconsin pay better.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

The Company views the Pilot Policy Manual (and the InFlight equivalent, which I believe is still called the Crewmember Policy Manual) as a binding contract

The company only views it that way until the point in time when it no longer becomes convenient to them to view it that way. Hence the need for a legally binding CBA.

and it may well be.

It's not.

SAPA is viewed by the Company as the official representative organization of the pilot group, and they may well be.

No, they aren't. These aren't my opinions. They're the opinions of dozens of highly experienced labor attorneys. SAPA isn't a legally recognized entity, and the Pilot Policy Manual is not a binding contract.

but I can tell you for free that if YOU ignore the PPM as a pilot, you'll be in just as much trouble as a unionized pilot would be for ignoring the conditions in their PWA/CBA

Of course YOU would be. It's a one-way street. It applies to pilots, but not to management. They can change the terms of employment on a whim.

when it comes to modifications. Terms and conditions for pilots are NOT subject to arbitrary amendment here.

Again, that's only the case until management decides that such an arrangement is no longer convenient for them.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

C'mon now, I support the union as much as the next guy, but that's just absurd. SkyWest has higher pay rates and better work rules than a number of ALPA carriers.

And if you think that that would be the case if it weren't for ALPA, then you're not nearly as smart as I thought you were (even for a wing-nut ).