Yet another career changer looking for advice to build a flying career

[Immelman]

Hi everyone,

I'm after advice. I'm at the stage in my life where I've either got to give a professional flying career a shot, or hang it up and keep flying on 'hobby' status.

Here's some background:
Age 30, 870TT, relatively-green CFI-ASE, fresh multi rating but no time (10hrs), BS degree (engineering).

Four years ago, I realized a life long dream as I saved enough to buy an airplane. I own a '66 Mooney, and have taken it from the tip of Baja to Fairbanks and to many points in between. No debt, financially secure (not rich, though).

I started flying when I was a teenager, PPL at age 17, right on to instrument and commercial shortly thereafter. I flew actively for a few years and then had a hiatus after college while I got financially secure. I work in the computer chip business as an engineer and have climbed that ladder to its plateau. I make good money, but for the past several years I've felt the call to do what I love more than anything else - fly.

To that end I got my CFI recently (but can only do a small amount of teaching, an hour here or there as I'm an evening and weekend guy). Regardless of whether I make the full time jump I enjoy teaching, and want to get my II and MEI done so I can jump on any training opportunities that come up, and also to be on the top of my game for future interviews.

Looking forward, I don't have specific objective in aviation. No shiny-jet-syndrome, that is. Working into something with decent pay and QOL after the initial dues paying is what I'm after. I imagine its what many of us are after. In terms of ideals, it would be nice to get on with a carrier like Hawaiian (I grew up in Hawaii, have family in the islands, and know a couple of pilots at HAL, and they have a pretty good career going), or failing that, to be able to be based on the west coast. Airline? Fractional? Corporate? I am a flexible man!

So the question is how to get there? It seems like the thing to do is get that magic 1000TPIC. To that end, some of the regionals look like a good stepping stone, though I have reservations about being yet another pilot willing to work for peanuts as an FO. I can afford it, for a while, but it would be painful to be stuck there if there is no career progression.

Here are some of the options I'm looking at:
- Go flight instruct full-time. It would need to be a place where I could pick up the multi-engine time I need, though. I'm not opposed to instructing but would prefer to jump up to the highest rung on the ladder as I can, as I am starting later in life
- Continue my weekend and holiday flying, sell my Mooney and go buy a twin to build a hundred hours in (and pray that nothing expensive breaks!), maybe work out a time building arrangement with another aspiring pilot. After that I'd be around the magic "1000/100" so many regionals want, but by the time I get there it would be mid-to-late 2012, and by then I could be in jeopardy with the looming 1500 hr rule
- Look for some other mid-career goal, like part 135 work, instead of going for a regional

Any wisdom you can share is appreciated!

 

[DE727UPS]

I'd keep doing what your doing until you get to 1200 total and then look at a 135 light twin freight job. You won't need much multi time if you know the right people. Get to know some of the Amflight guys at the forum and go to the big party Jetcareers puts on in Vegas once a year. Beg, borrow, and steal any little bit of multi time you can but I'd not go to the lengths of buying a twin. I had one for a while and have the income where I could support it but really didn't fly it much. They just burn too much gas, insurance is high, and yeah, if something breaks, it can get REALLY expensive fast.

I knew a guy who went from Amflight to a decent career 135 Air Ambulance job. If you do 135 freight, you'll gain some great experience that looks good to the higher end 135 and 91 Corporate jobs. Maybe you could use your current area of expertise to work for a company that could use your talent as a part time engineer type guy and part time pilot.

So, fly the crap out of the Mooney and do as much instructing as you can. Get the MEI to pick up a few more multi hours and maybe help some local twin guys with BFR's, ect. Network. Then go fly freight for a little while to get up to 1500/500, at least. It won't take long. Then keep networking and try to figure out your next move.

 

[Immelman]

A belated thank you for your advice. There do look to be some difficult (but exciting) forks in the road ahead to figure out how to break into this. I need to get my II & MEI done next so I can take whatever multi-engine opportunities arise here at the local flight training level, so that will be the next step. The twin ownership thing is so tempting, but I have the same intuitive sense... that it could go south in a hurry with the more affordable (old) airframes, or heck even with the new.

I have a good relationship with a local 135 charter operator but for now they are single-pilot. Maybe by the time I get to 135 IFR mins that will change but I won't hold my breath.

 

[jerrywhite7]

Hang around the local FBO's in the area. Look for something that has two seats in the front and buy the pilots lunch! Network, Network, Network. Be the guy that someone might want to spend a few days with and you might be getting calls to sit (and log) some right seat time in a KingAir or something. (might even make a few bucks along the way). This will continue to build flight time and experence for you.
Who knows, someone might even hire you at a level much higher than first year regional pay. Or at the least it will give you the time to go get first year regional pay!

 

[JsPilot]

I'm working my ass off in VNY. Instructing/Tours in the Hollywood area. Also flying around a Seneca for the multi-time. I'm sure we could use one more pilot. I also have family in Hawaii and have been trying to get a gig out there. I had a call back from Island Air a month ago and haven't heard back from them...

 

[Immelman]

JsPilot, just curious what are your times? Its a long-shot for sure but I am tempted to walk in a resume (to island air) next time I go to visit my folks.

 

[Crockrocket94]

Honestly, after you get a few hours like 1500tt, go be a part time intern at one of the FSI or CAE sim centers, and network through there. That's a great route to meet DO's, CP's and people that can put you in the company heiarchy.

 

[mjmuel0]

Above is a great idea if our wanting to skip the regionals. But just a warning you will miss all the fun in the regionals that way

 

[AKPROPILOT]

I for one would rather have a stable, well paying job outside of aviation and fly as a hobby. For me, flying is much more enjoyable when I decide where and when to go. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Frederick Obermueller]

I for one would rather have a stable, well paying job outside of aviation and fly as a hobby. For me, flying is much more enjoyable when I decide where and when to go. Just my 2 cents.

I'm in IT and I do see many guys get burned out. Some with a whimper but not always. A good flying friend of mine hung himself in '95 when Bell Labs was contracting.
I wonder if flying is any different. What happened to that Jet Blue pilot? But also consider the next time you wake up in the morning and the weather is crap...if you were a commercial pilot you would have to fly in it. At least in IT you can hide in your cubicle

 

[Immelman]

OP of this 'dreamer' thread here...

Well guys I'm stickin to the plan.. have started to send resumes out but no solid nibbles. Instructing on the weekends, and once a week or so I sneak off from work early if I can line a student up and do a late afternoon flight. I am loving instructing but there isn't enough business at my home field to let me go full time.. Will keep at it. I obtained my CFII and MEI earlier this week, and I am now up to aout 960TT/26AMEL. Still short on the multi-engine time, but thanks to this board I found a great guy to do a bit of time building with to get the pre-reqs for the MEI taken care of. May end up doing more of that.

...Sane or not, I've got to try pursuing the dream. I have enough engineering experience to come back if I need to.

 

[SteveCostello]

Immelman, I'm working on getting into the same boat you are in, so it's encouraging to see others taking the leap. I'm about to start the process, and intend on going for a corporate gig. Trying to get all the ducks in a row and try to plan things out a bit right now. Will be taking the initial steps in about a month or so.

Not really looking forward to spending time in a small plane in this St. Louis summer heat and humidity working on the PPL, but... what's a guy gonna do, right?

 

[Low&Slow]

I for one would rather have a stable, well paying job outside of aviation and fly as a hobby. For me, flying is much more enjoyable when I decide where and when to go. Just my 2 cents.

Let's trade jobs. It won't be long before you change your opinion.

 

[SteveCostello]

Let's trade jobs. It won't be long before you change your opinion.

Seriously.

I get that the grass is always greener, yada yada yada. But at least as a pilot you get to SEE grass. You know what I see, all day, every day, for over a third of my day? Grey cubicle walls and overhead fluorescent lighting. I sit in a fairly cheap office chair, in a cubicle that was 'rescued' from Hurricane Katrina and resold to the company I work for in Missouri. I should mention that the walls here are, for the most part, grey as well. The carpet is, too. So is my phone. And my keyboard. And my computer. The only thing that is colorful around me are the posters I've hung in my cubicle and the colored pencils I use for design work. I listen to the monotony of people typing around me all day. Or, better yet, the lady from billing on her F*&%ING speakerphone all day. The amount of variety I see day-to-day is nil. I actually rather enjoy what I do (eCommerce web design and development)... but the environment sucks, and that never really changes, no matter what company I work for. Actually, that's not true. The shade of grey that the cubicle is usually different between companies. So there's that.

It really is soul-sucking. Does it pay well? Sure... I guess it depends on your definition of 'well,' but compared to a first year RJ pilot, most definitely (approximately 4x). It is one of the biggest things I am weighing in this decision to give career aviation (specifically corporate) a shot. My goal is to get back to my current earnings as quickly as possible... anything after that is gravy. I'm just as concerned as the next guy about the declining QOL for pilots, so you won't see my paying my way into a job or buying a GV type-rating, despite the fact that I am getting into this really late in the game (I turn 41 in a few weeks). I'll do my best to appropriately pay my dues, and enjoy the process while doing it. I love to teach, and I love to teach things I am passionate about, so CFI should be a great time for both the students AND me, as long as I can keep them from killing me.

So a stable, "well-paying" job outside of aviation may give you security, which IS important. But flying as a hobby? Good luck with that. It's getting stupid expensive to fly. Even with our combined household income of over six figures, budgeting a hobby as expensive as flying is a real issue. Can we afford it? Probably. Can we justify it? Probably not. At least not at the level that flying deserves to not merely maintain, but constantly improve competency. That means at least 6 to 8 hours a month. At the going rate around here, that is at least $700 a month (wet) for a decent IFR-equipped rig. That's not chump change... that is one HELL of an expensive hobby. In fact, that would be second only to our house payment in terms of outgoing expenses.

 

[Immelman]

Seriously.
But flying as a hobby? Good luck with that. It's getting stupid expensive to fly. Even with our combined household income of over six figures, budgeting a hobby as expensive as flying is a real issue. Can we afford it? Probably. Can we justify it? Probably not. At least not at the level that flying deserves to not merely maintain, but constantly improve competency. That means at least 6 to 8 hours a month. At the going rate around here, that is at least $700 a month (wet) for a decent IFR-equipped rig. That's not chump change... that is one HELL of an expensive hobby. In fact, that would be second only to our house payment in terms of outgoing expenses.

That's the thing... I feel really lucky to have had the means to enjoy GA when I did. My sense - and I hate to say this - is that GA is dying a slow death. The costs are the primary reason. My Mooney eats $10-12K a year all-in, flying it enough to justify it, and I think its a pretty good deal. If you want a real weather-capable travelling machine (i.e. FIKI turbo Seneca or something), well, good lord that's a lot of money!

As pilots drop out it will only get worse as fixed costs for everything from fuel to parts to ? are amortized across fewer pilots. Its a death-spiral -- I really hope I'm wrong here. I think that electric aircraft are a likely way out of it, but it will take a few more generations of battery development to make one that has reasonable utility... experimentals as well, though then you still deal with fuel cost.

 

[SteveCostello]

Which is why I'm considering the career change. With most of the affordable GA birds getting REALLY long in the tooth (especially now with the AD for most little Cessnas), the cost of AvGas (and the likelihood of it only getting more expensive with the move away from 100LL), the potential for user fees, rentals for even older, less-equipped planes teetering around $100/wet, etc., it's just getting to the point that it won't be feasible for even most upper-middle classers to fly for fun. Of course, the general public would be only too happy for that...

Despite AOPA's best attempts, flying is fast becoming a wealthy man's sport.

 

[AA34]

But flying as a hobby? Good luck with that. It's getting stupid expensive to fly. Even with our combined household income of over six figures, budgeting a hobby as expensive as flying is a real issue. Can we afford it? Probably. Can we justify it? Probably not. At least not at the level that flying deserves to not merely maintain, but constantly improve competency.

Exactly

 

[GypsyPilot]

But at least as a pilot you get to SEE grass. You know what I see, all day, every day, for over a third of my day? Grey cubicle walls and overhead fluorescent lighting. I sit in a fairly cheap office chair, in a cubicle that was 'rescued' from Hurricane Katrina and resold to the company I work for in Missouri. I should mention that the walls here are, for the most part, grey as well. The carpet is, too. So is my phone. And my keyboard. And my computer. The only thing that is colorful around me are the posters I've hung in my cubicle and the colored pencils I use for design work. I listen to the monotony of people typing around me all day. Or, better yet, the lady from billing on her F*&%ING speakerphone all day. The amount of variety I see day-to-day is nil. I actually rather enjoy what I do (eCommerce web design and development)... but the environment sucks, and that never really changes, no matter what company I work for. Actually, that's not true. The shade of grey that the cubicle is usually different between companies. So there's that.

As a former mechanical engineer, those days are all too familiar. I've been flying professionally for over five years now, and I don't regret it one bit. I love going to work, and don't ever see myself going back to the office life. It was like I was dying a slow death.

 

[Low&Slow]

Okay, so it's not just me that finds it too expensive/difficult to fly when and where I want even with a "well-paying" job. I would LOVE to start a career as a full-time professional pilot, but I feel stuck in my job, at least until my kids are old enough to support themselves. But by then, I'll be in my early 50's. Who the hell's gonna hire a "young" pilot in his 50's and pay them a decent/fair wage.

 

[Immelman]

Update: I applied for, got the call, trained, and am now an FO flying the Mighty Beech for a certain airline that isn't terribly popular among the pilot message boards. I also resigned from my engineering job and am putting my plane up for sale shortly... I will miss it.

I am having a great time flying. The airplane is a blast to fly, we use our heads to navigate (rather than following a magenta line on autopilot), visit many unique outstations with outstanding scenery to enjoy... I can still get some of my GA flying kicks going into these places. A young, motivated, and fun pilot group. This was basically my only option given my times and the approaching ATP rule, and I am glad I went for it. I see a couple of options ahead: stick with this long enough to get 500 of turbine time and ATP minimums, jump ship for another regional (would do this only if necessary for QOL as I am commuting), or stick it out, upgrade as soon as I can, and get my TPIC time. Time will tell which path works out.