Unemployed again

[WacoFan]

And that would be an error in judgment on your part. Being more than twice Alex's age, I've dealt with far more adversity (success, too) in my life and have learned to roll with the punches. As I've said, you certainly don't see me throwing in the towel on my aviation career over a few job losses.

His thread came on here and he vented. He didn't blame anyone for his misfortune, but he simply reiterated what MANY threads on JC have stated - that the flying business, particularly until you achieve a "career job" can be a steaming pile. In fact, some who have even achieved a "career job" complain that it is a steaming pile. He wondered, at his age of 20, if this is something long-term to pursue or if he should change direction - something ALL 20 year olds think about at times. Did you have everything figured out at 20?

That's neither here nor there. Future successes are built on past ones, and while it is to Alex's credit that he has capitalized on the opportunities that have come his credit, it's the past successes that got him here. Subtract the questionable time from Alex's logbook now and it makes no difference in his marketability. Subtract it when the ink was still wet on his commercial ticket and he wouldn't be where he is today because he likely wouldn't have gotten those experiences. THAT'S my point.

So call it sour grapes if you must, but please excuse me if I don't celebrate the fact that I have to compete in the job market with people like that, while having had no such lucky breaks myself.

How many jobs has Alex taken from you because of his superior hours and breadth of experience? Or, are you lumping everyone that you view as having an advantage to you into Alex, personifying all of the advantaged into that one person? Here is the valid question: What are YOU doing to compete with Alex (and those like him)? What are you doing, in your location, to generate contacts, build your qualifications (like getting a CFI), or basically anything to make yourself more attractive to an employer? Sounds like a lot of people can make the airplane go up and down on a relatively consistent basis...so obviously that is not enough - it takes relationship building skills and personal and professional accountability to get ahead - that is what I have gleaned about the pilot profession since I joined JC. It is like every other profession in the world in that regard.

Sure, I used to think so too....right up to the point where you find yourself out of step with the groupthink that goes on around here and refuse to drink the kool-aid. My turning point was clearly last summer, and the GoJets threads. Before that, I was a reasonably well-liked guy on here according to others. But one dissenting opinion and 7 years of history goes down the tubes with some of you people--which I find very petty. Apparently a great many of you cannot seem to grasp the concept of agreeing to disagree and are quick to torpedo a relationship over a disagreement. Yet according to some of you, I'm the one with poor networking skills....

Here is GoJet again. If you felt strongly enough about that issue you should have made the leap. Trust me, you wouldn't have been doing any more damage to your network than you have with this thread and the one last week. Who is more out of step with "groupthink" than me? Seriously, I started the mini-conservative movement with MJG because we were so out of step with the groupthink. And, as I said in a previous post, I have gotten into heated discussion with people...yet I still consider them friends, and they consider me the same. Now, I didn't have a great many relationships on here that a sudden disagreement cost me relationships...but I have built relationships here even with people I disagree with...so I am not sure your statement rings true that all it takes is one disagreement. You are ALWAYS going to compete with people that you think had an easier time than you. I worry that perhaps in your zeal to compare your road to others...in an attempt to portray it as more noble...that you are maybe wasting that energy that could be used to analyze what your own natural advantages are and figure out ways to exploit those advantages. Look back on things - what mistakes have you made, why have you made them, what would you do differently, and how can you guard against making the same mistakes again? This is the internal dialog that you really need to have right now. This dialog will prepare you to seek out and exploit opportunities in the future - that needs to be your focus right now.

 

[fly22]

As I have said before, if you want to make a living, don't do it in aviation.

You're waiting for the train that will most likely never come.

Don't set yourself up for disappointment and get a job that allows you the liberty of flying a 172 on the weekends. It's financially the smartest move you'll ever make.

AMEN!

 

[CK]

And that would be an error in judgment on your part. Being more than twice Alex's age, I've dealt with far more adversity (success, too) in my life and have learned to roll with the punches. As I've said, you certainly don't see me throwing in the towel on my aviation career over a few job losses.

Hahahahahahahaha....how many times do I need to say this. I was never going to throw in the towel on aviation. I was going to start my own aviation business, and work for myself, in other words a new career path. Stop making things up to prove your point.

Subtract the questionable time from Alex's logbook now and it makes no difference in his marketability. Subtract it when the ink was still wet on his commercial ticket and he wouldn't be where he is today because he likely wouldn't have gotten those experiences. THAT'S my point.

Did you miss my post in the last thread where I broke my career down for you. None, and I mean none, of that "questionable" time had any affect on my career. It is not on my resume, it was not used on any insurance forms, none of my bosses even know about it, because they could care less about my times. I have never had a single boss look through my logbook or even ask about my times when I have been hired. I would be right where I am without those few hours with my mother.

So call it sour grapes if you must, but please excuse me if I don't celebrate the fact that I have to compete in the job market with people like that, while having had no such lucky breaks myself.

Welcome to life, suck it up and drive on.


Alex.

 

[DL31082]

Your complaining about having to compete with someone that has had an opportunity to get better qualifications then you. Welcome to life. I guess I should complain about everyone that had their mom or dad pay for their flight training. They had a better opportunity and capitalized on it, wouldn't you if you had the chance?

This site is what people make of it. There are certain people on here that I haven't liked. It is not because of the side of the agrument that they are on, but because of how they agrue their side. The way things are said are just as important as what is being said. Anyways, good luck to both you and Citationkid on your job search. I hope everything works out for you in the end.

 

[rd757]

Aloft, I've seen more negativity from you recently, especially towards someone much younger than you. Apparently, you feel the need to talk down to someone about what they've succeeded in accomplishing so far.

 

[charlie1017]

Aloft I'm sorry to hear about your job loss and I sincerely hope that you can get a new job soon. The JC folks here are providing you some valuable advice that you should take to heart.

Is there any way you can get your CFI ticket, even if it means saving money for a while and getting a non-flying job?

 

[TheresaPilot]

Did you miss my post in the last thread where I broke my career down for you. None, and I mean none, of that "questionable" time had any affect on my career. It is not on my resume, it was not used on any insurance forms, none of my bosses even know about it, because they could care less about my times. I have never had a single boss look through my logbook or even ask about my times when I have been hired. I would be right where I am without those few hours with my mother.

Alex.

I like you. It's never really about the numbers. It's about who knows you well enough to want to fly with you and they know you would soak up the knowledge and never complain about having a last minute trip... You're just grinning ear to ear because you get to fly an airplane... And get paid to do so. I don't think that aloft understands that so much.
~Theresa

 

[Bumblebee]

... folks, please take the time to read this statement, and let's step back from jabs... aloft is bummed, this should be about supporting another member who is bummed. I am hoping this can get us back on track, and help Matt to process his loss and realize that a solution may be right here on this forum...

So call it sour grapes if you must, but please excuse me if I don't celebrate the fact that I have to compete in the job market with people like that, while having had no such lucky breaks myself.


Yet according to some of you, I'm the one with poor networking skills....

I am just going to ask you to go back and read through some of the posts you have made recently... Please try to do it from a neutral perspective. Step out of the hurt feelings and anger and try to see how others may percieve you.


When I first joined JC in 03 I seem to recall that you were one of the people I looked up to. Even though you were pretty hardcore with your perspective, I was able to gain insight from your experiences. As things have progressed in your (and my) careers, I know that you have had some unfortunate breaks along the way, and I have also percieved a more strident and sometimes combatitive attitude.

There have been several opportunities when different people have asked you to take a moment to acknowledge that maybe you have been a little overbearing.

Please do not take this commentary the wrong way, I have appreciated your perspective over the years, but lately you seem bitter and unwilling to consider that maybe you have been battling against the very people who could help you out of your career slump.

Here's the problem with this thread, you came on hoping for a little support, and some people used your own words against you...you didn't like them because the words you used on Alex were painful and unfair. They were unfair for Alex and they were unfair to you.

I am hoping that we can stop with the jabs, do a little soul searching and remember what we are here for, to support, network, celebrate and mourn our careers, successes, failures and losses with each other as a community.

We can have debate and even argue, but when it turns into a circular discussion, then it's wasted energy.

Matt, I want you to be successful, and this site has provided me opportunities and networking beyond my wildest dreams.

If you take my advice and do some soul searching, please reconsider who we are as a community, we are not all in lockstep and come from all over the country with many gifts. We are happy to share them with each other.

Remember, if you feel as if the whole world is in disagreement with you , it may be time to re-evaluate your position.

with respect, Dale

 

[Stone Cold]

Please, for the love of God, tell me you forgot a sarcasm tag or two?! Maybe it's the moderator hat being worn, but some tough love is needed now and again...kinda like the smacks to the lady in "Airplane!"

Aloft, Grow up!! You have a 20 year old acting 10X more mature than you are. Life is not fair. Grow a sack and improve your life. I wish you the best of luck in the future...you know, the aerial survey companies are hiring again.

Did you burn bridges there too?

 

[Bumblebee]

... folks, please take the time to read this statement, and let's step back from jabs... aloft is bummed, this should be about supporting another member who is bummed. I am hoping this can get us back on track, and help Matt to process his loss and realize that a solution may be right here on this forum...

Please, for the love of God, tell me you forgot a sarcasm tag or two?! Maybe it's the moderator hat being worn, but some tough love is needed now and again...kinda like the smacks to the lady in "Airplane!"

Aloft, Grow up!! You have a 20 year old acting 10X more mature than you are. Life is not fair. Grow a sack and improve your life. I wish you the best of luck in the future...you know, the aerial survey companies are hiring again.

Did you burn bridges there too?

well,I guess you just decided to completely ignore my request...

I considered deleting it, (that would be a moderator action) but I'll just leave it here to show that you also can display the same disregard for others that Aloft did with Alex.

I was trying to lower the temperature for a minute and remember why we are here. I didn't think it was about taking the cheap shot.

 

[fly22]

Wow now we have moderators ignoring moderators.

I too am glad I don't have a dog in this hunt.

And professional aviators alike wonder why their career QOL struggles to strive forward as a whole.

I watch most if not all of the attitudes on this thread and think to myself, I made the right decision.

 

[Bumblebee]

Wow now we have moderators ignoring moderators.

I too am glad I don't have a dog in this hunt.

And professional aviators alike wonder why their career QOL struggles to strive forward as a whole.

I watch most if not all of the attitudes on this thread and think to myself, I made the right decision.

ohno... did I ignore a mod? if I did, could you point it out? thanks...

 

[wheelsup]

FWIW if I lost my job and someone who had a pretty good string of luck or good fortune by being born into the family they did told me to suck it up I'd want to smack them too even if they were right.

It's much easier to capitalize on failure when you have a strong support system in place that got you to where you are today.

An example. Person A has has a parent that works for a very well paying company. Their college was paid for, their timebuilding was paid for, they are an pilot at a commuter and their apartment was furnished and is paid for, his parents even buy his food. It would be pretty tough to not succeed if you had that support system in place.

Contrast that with Person B who is struggling with student loans, rent, food, and to top it off he just lost his job and has little savings. If person A told you to suck it up, wouldn't you want to smack him around?

Yes, Person A can screw it up too. I realize that. And many do.

Back when I was a CFI and struggling I started experimenting with web sites. I didn't make a ton of money at it, but having a lack of money encouraged me to do something about it and go out there and talk to clients (mostly my former bosses who needed web sites redone). If I had everything handed to me I would never have learned that skill, which is important if you want to start a business in this day and age. I also wouldn't know how to work on my own cars (being poor meant getting my car working or I walked) which is something I now enjoy. I did have a support system in place but in my case I was lucky and didn't have to call upon the "bank of dad" and am proud I didn't need it.

I know how it stings to get told by someone who seems to have had some really good fortune tell you to suck it up. But aloft man, you're fighting a losing battle here. Good luck!

 

[Stone Cold]

... folks, please take the time to read this statement, and let's step back from jabs... aloft is bummed, this should be about supporting another member who is bummed. I am hoping this can get us back on track, and help Matt to process his loss and realize that a solution may be right here on this forum...

well,I guess you just decided to completely ignore my request...

I considered deleting it, (that would be a moderator action) but I'll just leave it here to show that you also can display the same disregard for others that Aloft did with Alex.

I was trying to lower the temperature for a minute and remember why we are here. I didn't think it was about taking the cheap shot.

You know that first part was added after I posted...or at least after I started posting!!

Ok, so I was a bit harsh. "Dear Lord, I apologize" to quote Larry the Cable Guy!

I wish you the best of luck Aloft!! I really do!!:beer:

 

[Bumblebee]

:beer::beer:

You know that first part was added after I posted...or at least after I started posting!!:beer:

Ok, so I was a bit harsh. "Dear Lord, I apologize" to quote Larry the Cable Guy!

I wish you the best of luck Aloft!! I really do!!:beer:

:beer:

beer solves everything!

 

[fly22]

well,I guess you just decided to completely ignore my request...

I never said it was you but you obvioulsy felt like you were being ignored.

I'm not trying to contribute to this argument Im making an observation from the outside.

 

[Bumblebee]

I never said it was you but you obvioulsy felt like you were being ignored.

I'm not trying to contribute to this argument Im making an observation from the outside.

I was looking for the other mod...

Wow now we have moderators ignoring moderators.

Stone Cold isn't a mod, no worries, not sensitive

 

[derg]

:beer::beer::beer:

beer solves everything!

Indeed.

 

[Stone Cold]

I never said it was you but you obvioulsy felt like you were being ignored.

I'm not trying to contribute to this argument Im making an observation from the outside.

Ummm...I'm not a moderator, and thought seriously that he had forgotten a sarcasm tag. He put the first part in there after I had written my response. I stand by my statement that the 20 year old is the more mature in all of these discussions, though...including my "contribution", FWIW.:beer:

 

[fly22]

I was looking for the other mod... Stone Cold isn't a mod, no worries, not sensitive

Well he damn well should be with his wisdom.


You're quick!