HonuPineapple
New Member
No they said they expected 60 total for the year and only 20 are in class, about to go to class, or developmentals. 40 are totally unaccounted for.
Don't hold your breath! 180+ Facilities on hiring freeze
- Thread starter capttiffany
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No they said they expected 60 total for the year and only 20 are in class, about to go to class, or developmentals. 40 are totally unaccounted for.
The problem with any of these phone calls is this, the people at the facility have , in my opinion, a better understanding of what they need then a person who's in Washington doing bueruecratic *spelling* work
teetee
New Member
Okay, I have a little rant here (some of you are so surprised, I just know)
Hiring Freeze is just a word in which it depends on what you define as freezing. Do you think freezing is: Not hiring at all, ever! OR do you think it is: Not allowing facilities to choose candidates right now because Washington thinks they are staff but the facility disagrees? OR could it be that the facility is on hold while they get some trainees out of training and into traffic so they have the ability to train more?
Anyway you view it there is a fact: some facilities right now are being stopped, froze, forbidden, put on hold...whatever word you want...from hiring. I know that some have been told they couldn't hire in the Feb panels and didn't even bother flying out to look at the candidates. Is it in effect all year? I don't know, I highly doubt it though.
Can I guarantee that the hold will stay put for the April panels...no.
Should everyone panick? NO!!
Should everyone that is an applicant think there is no hope and give up? NO.
Should everyone put all their future hopes and dreams in this career, in just this basket? NO. Just like every other job, it is just an application. There is NO guarantee that you will get the job, even when you are well qualified for it.
My husband applied for this job in June of 2007. He was laid off in July of 2007. I hoped and prayed and prayed and hoped that everything would just happen and he would get the job, afterall it was perfect timing for needing a job. All that time we (well I) got unemployment filed so that the minute the severance pay stopped we would still have income. My husband also immediately set to work looking for another job.
At this time, summer of 2007, all facilities were in serious need of people so we figured the process would go quicker. We were wrong. Even though we wanted the job hiring process to go fast, it didn't. We heard no word for 6 months after applying other than "approved to take AT-SAT". We had to carry on with life as if we hadn't applied. 16 months later we had a OKC date for 2 months away. It takes time.
We honestly thought we had been completely forgotten many times in the process!!!
After he took the AT-SAT it took another 6 months for them to contact him about PEPC dates. Overall, it took 18 months from time of application until time of starting in OKC. Many have the same time frame. SOME lucked out and were hired in under a year...it only took 7-9 months.
Right now everything is just getting sorted out. They have a lot of applicants and they have a LOT of new hires. Some facilities are on hold until they see what is happening, how many people they really need or possibly how many new hires that particular facility can afford, train, etc.
I say, give them time to figure it out. Do you really want to get to OKC only be to be informed you will be waiting 3 years before you can even start training because there isn't enough staff to train you? 3 years of staying at the base pay, no ways of getting more money other than if the locality goes up? 3 years of not being able to help control traffic at all? Some may like that idea; most, I bet, would like to get in and start getting trained so that they can do what they dream of...control traffic.
Please in the future when you state "freeze" also state what your definition of freeze is, afterall you don't want people to get all freaked out about having to wait when the process is a waiting process
Okay...end rant
dredding
New Member
The FAA is hiring. If you received a TOL, that means you have a spot reserved at that certain facility. Here are the issues.
#1. Almost everyone knows that different facilities sometimes have slots at OKC for certain dates.
#2. Due to the fact that there is a massive amount of people retiring, that puts a strain on a facility.
#3. Some facilities are strained more than other facilities because of more people retiring.
#4. The FAA is working through which facilities need people first based on these strains. Thus "freezing" some facilities from sending their new hires to OKC until the facilities that are most strained can be adequately staffed.
Everyone just breathe. We will all be in OKC sooner or later.
#1. Almost everyone knows that different facilities sometimes have slots at OKC for certain dates.
#2. Due to the fact that there is a massive amount of people retiring, that puts a strain on a facility.
#3. Some facilities are strained more than other facilities because of more people retiring.
#4. The FAA is working through which facilities need people first based on these strains. Thus "freezing" some facilities from sending their new hires to OKC until the facilities that are most strained can be adequately staffed.
Everyone just breathe. We will all be in OKC sooner or later.
teetee
New Member
I agree that everyone with TOL will get to their facilities, eventually. Some may take some time though. Some facilities hired cause they DID have openings due to retirees. Then several retirees have chosen NOT to retire. Seems their retirements have had a substantial hit with the economy and they are choosing to work longer and save having to already dip in the retirement. There are at least 2 people at my husband's facility that were going to retire this year and have chosen to put it off cause they can still work until 56 and they want to keep from using their slimming retirements.
CMS3185
New Member
The FAA is hiring. If you received a TOL, that means you have a spot reserved at that certain facility. Here are the issues.
#1. Almost everyone knows that different facilities sometimes have slots at OKC for certain dates.
#2. Due to the fact that there is a massive amount of people retiring, that puts a strain on a facility.
#3. Some facilities are strained more than other facilities because of more people retiring.
#4. The FAA is working through which facilities need people first based on these strains. Thus "freezing" some facilities from sending their new hires to OKC until the facilities that are most strained can be adequately staffed.
Everyone just breathe. We will all be in OKC sooner or later.
#5. A big issue facilities are running into is the percentage ratios of CPCs : Developmentals, which are reaching critical levels. Many facilities are still in need, but have a percentage of CPC : Dev that is reaching set limits (I think the limits are in the lower 30% range, and is due to a mix of retirements and overload of new hires), so the ATO is suspending any new hires from beginning work until ratios come into a more acceptable range. This will ensure training is efficient, and most importantly, the operation remains SAFE. This information came from my dad (Air Traffic Manager). Also, retirements are still forecast to be steady through the next 10 years, so everyone relax.
My dad also told me that CTI and VRA applicants are still low comapared to years prior, which is why OTS opened up, so we should see more OTS openings; when is the question... it could be a while considering hiring is slowing a bit and a bunch of people are in the pipeline, either waiting for OKC or selection (PUBNAT 5/6/7).
Edward
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this will ease people's minds or not, but...
When I got a call for my academy date in Dec., I was assigned to the April 7th class. I asked if there were earlier class dates available. She said there were slots open, but BOS was on a HIRING FREEZE for the quarter and I had to wait until April to go.
They used the term 'hiring freeze', but it wasn't a freeze...just a delay. Each facility can only take so many new hires per quarter/year. This person just happen to know that there would be an opening in April. I don't think that all HR Reps will be this forthcoming as to when a particular facility will have an opening or lift their "freeze".
In short, the FAA will be hiring for a long time, but each facility will hire at different rates based on need and allowance.
When I got a call for my academy date in Dec., I was assigned to the April 7th class. I asked if there were earlier class dates available. She said there were slots open, but BOS was on a HIRING FREEZE for the quarter and I had to wait until April to go.
They used the term 'hiring freeze', but it wasn't a freeze...just a delay. Each facility can only take so many new hires per quarter/year. This person just happen to know that there would be an opening in April. I don't think that all HR Reps will be this forthcoming as to when a particular facility will have an opening or lift their "freeze".
In short, the FAA will be hiring for a long time, but each facility will hire at different rates based on need and allowance.
ptrckturner
New Member
I've been told the numbers the ATO puts out for each facility can change every week. I've also been told the downturn in the economy has affected the FAA's whole model for hiring new controllers.
Whatever the case, for those of us with TOLs, it is profoundly unfair of the ATO to make us wait like this, without any idea when things will 'unfreeze.' This process has been ridiculously full of waiting up to the TOL, but at least it was predictable waiting (thanks to this forum). It is massively unfair to leave us TOLers in the lurch like this now. The way the HR people claim absolute ignorance just kills me. Mine won't even ballpark it by season!
Prino
Well-Known Member
you bitch about the wait now....not to long ago there were people waiting 2-3 years to go through the same process many of us are going through in less than a year
ptrckturner
New Member
You know not everyone is getting through this process in under a year, the majority are not. Take myself for example. I received my TOL in November 2008 for SCT. I was then granted a redirect request for VNY which took about a week. All of my clearances came in Mid-february 2009. I was told to sit tight they were working on getting me a classdate. I was informed beginning of this week, I will not get my class date until most likely 01 OCT/FY 2010 unless the ATO's numbers change. I am having a good attitude and hoping it will happen faster than that. But you can bet your ass I was a little disappointed
Telling someone to stop bitching when in fact they have valid concerns over their livelyhood, maybe a family to provide for and taking into concern the climate of the economy/job market is kind of a narrow minded thing to say. It's a pretty obtuse attitude to say stop your bitching and deal with it man. I think being told perhaps to wait 8 more months before you can even be considered for a class date, and then having over a year to wait for a projected report date to your facility, is not something I would just brush off my shoulder.
Just my .02
I would say the majority of people in my basics class have waited over a year to get hired. I feel very fortunate to be in my class with only a 300 day wait. The guys and gals with a shorter wait seem to be going to facilities in need. By shorter wait...I mean about a year.
I can no longer offer my opinion on the hiring process... However, I can tell you the wait is worth it. Hang in there.
I can no longer offer my opinion on the hiring process... However, I can tell you the wait is worth it. Hang in there.
hudson26
New Member
Profoundly unfair? Come on now.
The ATO doesn't owe applicants anything. We signed up for this process voluntarily. Your HR rep is actually being REAL with you by telling you that they have no idea. If they gave you a ballpark idea and then it took longer I imagine you'd freak out.
It all has to do with timing, us pubnat2 KC pepc people were pretty lucky. Most of us got TOLs and the FOL followed by a month. People before us waited longer, and now it appears people after us are waiting. I was prepared to wait however long it took, without throwing a temper tantrum ("It's not FAIR!").
Just because they can't give out the answer you want to hear, or any answer for that matter, doesn't mean they are doing it out of spite and trying to make your life difficult. It just is what it is. I understand your frustration but hope you can understand why they aren't giving out a ballpark: No answer they give will make people happy. They cannot predict what the ATO will do.
I think Ptrckturner's response really shows much more insight into life in the real world than you people who are attacking me for 'bitching.' There may be no rules for application processes. The FAA can drag their process out for a year, as they do. However, once they make an offer, even if it's conditional, they cross the line into the world of reliance. When you make an offer of employment, when you send a signed letter with a salary and location, people start to rely on that offer based on reasonable expectations. It is not reasonable to expect to wait a year after an employment offer to start work, unless the employer gives you fair warning, which FAA has not.
Moreover, I'm frankly astonished that so many people are so ready to jump to the defense of this process. Have you people ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome!? The FAA has kept (or will keep) us waiting for a year before even making offers. They provided no overview of the process up front, and they drew everybody along through the months with little congratulatory carrots ("congratulations on your selection to take the AT-SAT!" "congratulations on your selection for further consideration at XYZ facility!"). And now, after making conditional offers, they're going to just "freeze" us? It is simply wrong. There is no private employer in this country, in my lay opinion, who could do such a thing without having a lawsuit in the making. You can't just drag people along after making an employment offer to maximize your own convenience.
Moreover, I'm frankly astonished that so many people are so ready to jump to the defense of this process. Have you people ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome!? The FAA has kept (or will keep) us waiting for a year before even making offers. They provided no overview of the process up front, and they drew everybody along through the months with little congratulatory carrots ("congratulations on your selection to take the AT-SAT!" "congratulations on your selection for further consideration at XYZ facility!"). And now, after making conditional offers, they're going to just "freeze" us? It is simply wrong. There is no private employer in this country, in my lay opinion, who could do such a thing without having a lawsuit in the making. You can't just drag people along after making an employment offer to maximize your own convenience.
hudson26
New Member
EVERY federal agency takes their sweet time hiring people. Talk to people in the process for FBI or DEA or any other agency and they will tell you: It takes TIME. The only time you really have a real gripe is when you have a FIRM offer and they then try to cancel your class or something. A TOL is tentative. I don't think there is a person here who doesn't feel for you, but stomping your feet crying about how "unfair" it all is just sounds childish. No one is attacking you, just pointing out that your "reliance" may be mis-placed. I don't agree that once they "cross the line" and make a conditional offer you should rely on that... I think it even said in bold face typing "Do NOT quit your job based on this conditional offer" etc etc.
I hope the process picks up for you, but the FAA isn't trying to ruin your life or anything (yet:yup
.FutureATCer
Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree with Chiseler more. Everything that was said is dead on.
And hudson26, you made mention of the tentative offer letter. Well, in my opinion we have to ask on what basis is that tentative offer letter tentative? It is tentative on the fact you pass your medical, psych, and drug tests as well as your background. Also, in my opinion, these things should be done in a reasonable amount of time. I don't know one person who wouldn't agree that the amount of time we have to wait (even after receiving a TOL) is crossing the line of reasonable. Unless you fail one of the four things mentioned above there should be no reason you aren't presented with a FOL and date shortly after being given your TOL.
Again, all this is my opinion. And in no way am I "whining", "throwing a temper tantrum", or screaming "it's not fair".
And hudson26, you made mention of the tentative offer letter. Well, in my opinion we have to ask on what basis is that tentative offer letter tentative? It is tentative on the fact you pass your medical, psych, and drug tests as well as your background. Also, in my opinion, these things should be done in a reasonable amount of time. I don't know one person who wouldn't agree that the amount of time we have to wait (even after receiving a TOL) is crossing the line of reasonable. Unless you fail one of the four things mentioned above there should be no reason you aren't presented with a FOL and date shortly after being given your TOL.
Again, all this is my opinion. And in no way am I "whining", "throwing a temper tantrum", or screaming "it's not fair".
:yeahthat:
And: A conditional offer isn't an offer that an employer can just yank for any reason. It's an offer that they can only yank if you fail to meet one of the specified conditions. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like once you're cleared the TOL transforms into a definitive offer of employment.