Don't hold your breath! 180+ Facilities on hiring freeze

[dredding]

Hiring Delay is a better term for the situation at the FAA.

As far the feeling that this process is unfair...GROW UP!! The FAA owes you nothing. Life is unfair sometimes. What an opportunity that we have here in this career. Some of us have dreamed of this job and are willing to take chances and wait. If you don't like the wait, there's the door.

 

[hudson26]

And in no way am I "whining", "throwing a temper tantrum", or screaming "it's not fair".

You were not, no, but others were.

I think that would be a great thing if the TOL automatically turned into a FOL once you complete the necessary steps. It would make life on the applicant much easier. Unfortunately that's just not how it works. Once you complete all the clearances AND the agency has a spot for you, you will get a FOL. They can't give you a class date that they don't have!

If the ATO would get around to figuring out what to do with their budget/staffing HR could start filling classes. This is the hold up, bureaucracy in Washington. I think it goes without saying Washington doesn't give a rats arse about applicants who don't like the long wait - because there are plenty of people who will gladly wait and take their spot. Sad but true.

What's the answer? Wait how ever long it takes. Put in job applications at other agencies/companies as a backup....

 

[HiDef]

Whatever the case, for those of us with TOLs, it is profoundly unfair of the ATO to make us wait like this, without any idea when things will 'unfreeze.' This process has been ridiculously full of waiting up to the TOL, but at least it was predictable waiting (thanks to this forum). It is massively unfair to leave us TOLers in the lurch like this now. The way the HR people claim absolute ignorance just kills me. Mine won't even ballpark it by season!

If you think it's BS now, wait until you actually get INTO the FAA. The fun has just begun for you buddy...

HD

 

[Chiseler]

If you think it's BS now, wait until you actually get INTO the FAA. The fun has just begun for you buddy...

HD

I'll take all the BS they can--er--dish out once I'm being paid for it.

And also, as far as whining goes: I realize that saying "it's unfair" is entirely useless. It changes nothing. Nonetheless, 12+ months is unfair. However, I apologize if personal reactions of that nature are in appropriate for this forum.

 

[dli1314]

I'll take all the BS they can--er--dish out once I'm being paid for it.

And also, as far as whining goes: I realize that saying "it's unfair" is entirely useless. It changes nothing. Nonetheless, 12+ months is unfair. However, I apologize if personal reactions of that nature are in appropriate for this forum.

I still don't see a reasonable explanation from you as to why it's unfair at all. What don't you understand about the size and scale of this hiring in comparison to the number of specialists on the rolls working the process? Do you even know what kind of process hiring ONE person is compared to hiring people that require this type of training on a massive scale?

We all know the waiting sucks, really we do. At this point, ESPECIALLY with the crappy economy, you are not in a position to complain about a hiring process. Let's be realistic here...If it's soooooo incredibly horrible and unfair anic: maybe you could look for some other form of work. TOL or not, the FAA really owes you nothing. They are offering YOU a job, it's not like there aren't 500 people right behind you who would gladly wait for your position.

 

[Chiseler]

Well, dli1314, I guess it really comes down to your view of political economy. If you're a hard-core free-market type, then there's nothing unfair about it at all. People are commodities like any other, to be bought and sold as the market dictates, and the FAA owes none of us anything.

However, I am inclined to think that people owe a higher standard of conduct to one another. After we TOLers have invested so much time in the process, the FAA could at least give us some idea when the process will end and the job will begin. Not because they 'owe' it to us, but because it's the right thing to do when dealing with people, as opposed to the livestock view of the labor market you seem to take.

Ultimately, though, I suppose it is a matter of perspective. The situation either seems unfair to your or it doesn't. If you took your AT-SAT 12/15, and if precedent holds, it could be 2010 before you're even cleared and eligible to wait for a class date. Respectfully, the intervening 9 months may change your perspective.

 

[jhp8]

Well, dli1314, I guess it really comes down to your view of political economy. If you're a hard-core free-market type, then there's nothing unfair about it at all. People are commodities like any other, to be bought and sold as the market dictates, and the FAA owes none of us anything.

However, I am inclined to think that people owe a higher standard of conduct to one another. After we TOLers have invested so much time in the process, the FAA could at least give us some idea when the process will end and the job will begin. Not because they 'owe' it to us, but because it's the right thing to do when dealing with people, as opposed to the livestock view of the labor market you seem to take.

Ultimately, though, I suppose it is a matter of perspective. The situation either seems unfair to your or it doesn't. If you took your AT-SAT 12/15, and if precedent holds, it could be 2010 before you're even cleared and eligible to wait for a class date. Respectfully, the intervening 9 months may change your perspective.

I couldn't agree more. I get the impression the government has the livestock view of the labor market. At least it shouldn't be a shocker to anyone.

 

[MPrice]

soory but i agree the FAA owes us nothing and you should sit there and wait and be happy your waiting. there have hundreds of spots to fill and doing this with limited resources inst an easy job and if they cant do it the way you think it should be done i dont think they really care. i think they care more about getting these empty spots filled in in the most orderly fasion possible with out caussing the hole opperation to go into chaos and if that means hurting a few feeling along the way then so be it they can always find another person to fill your place.

 

[MINNstateU-ATC]

Mprice.... You may feel now that the FAA doesn't owe you anything, but looking at your dates it looks like you just took your AT-SAT in January. I took mine a year ago and have been told not to expect a date until at the earliest october 1st. I can't wait to hear your opinion when you hear you won't start training until "sometime" 2011. Maybe you are better off because you expect this, me on the other hand was told "class date in october" then "January" then March or sometime "spring", now earliest "fiscal year 2010". I signed a TOL in august 08 and most likely wont get a date until 2010. I basically was lied to.

Yes, I understand that this is a great opportunity, and look forward immensely to controlling in the tower, but I don't like to be strung along and lied to. At least have the balls to tell me that I won't be starting for a year and a half, that way at least I can plan MY life. I used to have patience with this process, but now I feel betrayed and used.

 

[jandaan]

Are you a CTI grad or OTS? Is there any difference in wait times for CTI vs OTS that you are aware of? Thanks, and good luck to you.

 

[dli1314]

" Well, dli1314, I guess it really comes down to your view of political economy. If you're a hard-core free-market type, then there's nothing unfair about it at all. People are commodities like any other, to be bought and sold as the market dictates, and the FAA owes none of us anything.

However, I am inclined to think that people owe a higher standard of conduct to one another. After we TOLers have invested so much time in the process, the FAA could at least give us some idea when the process will end and the job will begin. Not because they 'owe' it to us, but because it's the right thing to do when dealing with people, as opposed to the livestock view of the labor market you seem to take.

Ultimately, though, I suppose it is a matter of perspective. The situation either seems unfair to your or it doesn't. If you took your AT-SAT 12/15, and if precedent holds, it could be 2010 before you're even cleared and eligible to wait for a class date. Respectfully, the intervening 9 months may change your perspective. "



haha, come on man, political views? It's more about being realistic. Maybe it just seems obvious to me because I've worked in and around staffing. Work in LR or employment services for a year or two and then tell me this process is "unfair". The process required to hire one employee is painstaking(I thought most people on this forum might have realized that at this point).

You are still talking about the process like the FAA owes you something, where do you get this sense of entitlement? Like it or not, this is a BUSINESS, not Oprah. Do you honestly think it's a good use of taxpayer money to base a hiring process on people's feelings? Or are you just getting emotional because it's your livelihood at stake? There's not much point in complaining. Where is it going to get you? Be happy you have that TOL in hand and you are that much closer to a class date...or FIND ANOTHER JOB.

As far as perspective goes...If I have to wait till 2011 to get hired I honestly don't care. I have a job right now and this is not even close to the only thing I have on the horizon. As I said before, There are 500 people right behind you who would be HAPPY to wait five times as long as you have to take your spot.

It's difficult to be patient with a process that has no definitive timeline, but what else can you do at this point?

 

[WoH]

*Sigh*

Well I was just going to keep my big mouth shut, but of course I can't because I'm lame and opinionated. This post is really long. You won't hurt my feelings if you don't read it.

This sucks. I mean it really does. It BLOWS! Any minute now (as in last month) announcement 8 with be live. I'm not sure it's going to happen, but hey...I'm optomistic. They are making some changes to it because they realized that the system that they have been using is not the easiest, least labor intensive, cheapest, or most time conservative.

Too bad though, that they were only 1/4 of the way through their other announcements or they might have figured this out much earlier. The sad truth is that only 2 announcements are "complete" and the system has already pretty much fallen apart. There is no money left for hiring, there is no money to train, there is no time to train, and there is still a huge shortage.

Whose fault? Not the FAA, let me be clear about that. Don't get me wrong, the FAA has been as short sighted as a starving dog shoveling free food in its mouth as fast as it can, not realizing that it will throw up any second, but...

The economy sucks. The people everyone thought would retire, are not retiring. No one is flying, but everyone is looking for a job. Just go look in the pilot forums. I'm not sure everyone is thinking about the cost to fly you to OKC, and the incredible cost to train you. I forgot the figure, but it cost a heck of a lot for you to sit in class. It's a big gamble since half of you will never give the FAA any kind of return on their investment.

So now...like everyone else, they are having a little cash flow problem and expect to have it all figured out in about six months or so. Six months is really not that long for a govenment organization to be put on hold. Not long at all.

I live in California and my 5 year probationary Teaching Credential is already almost a year old. Once I land a job it takes two years to clear it. Do that math and that means I need to get a job in the next two years or I lose my license. Is there any way in hell that's going to happen? Nope.

Just like ATC, all those teachers who were expected to retire early won't because their retirement is worth nothing. I wouldn't take the job even if it was offered for fear that we'd have to relocate for the FAA, which I'm fully willing to do, especially if it means moving somewhere with teaching jobs. So I know a lot about waiting for a career to pan out. Ever been deferred to a college or grad school that accepted you? That means that yes you got your addmission, but they don't have to let you come to school next term...or the term after that...or the term after that. It's not at all unusual, especially right now.

Please don't blame your HR rep. If you've read any posts from people who have stopped by HR then you know that they are as stressed out as you are with this process and really doing their very very best. There are not enough of them. There are not enough hours in the day. Not only are we calling them, but probably the facilities too. Really this is an FAA critisism. I'm just thinking that we shouldn't blame it on the reps that give us the best info they can.

The FAA is regurgitating applicants right now. If you have your TOL...the clock has stopped for you. That TOL is good for forever maybe. Maybe longer than my 5 year credential even. Those people who are choosing not to take early retirement now, will be forced to retire and there will be plenty of need for the next few years. (If you want to talk about unfair...even if they wait to retire, they will probably still be in bad shape).

So people who just started waiting kinda have a lot to complain about too because the light at the end of this hiring tunnel seems to be getting further and further away. If 3/4 is on hold, 5/6/7 are thinking "will there even BE anymore hiring?!" Well I know that there will be, over the next few years at least, so don't fret too much. But my husband, he turns 29 in 1 month. Just like me, he has two years to get his foot in the door. If he had his TOL we wouldn't care, because that's when the clock stops for age, but he doesn't even have enough time to give up and go CTI.

Right now we both have jobs, which is more than we can say for our neighbors and family. Incedently he's given up. He's just hoping to be plesently surprised. I don't have any answers, just some thoughts. It's not out of the question for a career or an education to get deferred and six months is not considred a long deferrment, but some of us are running out of time and some of your spouses, children, parents might not be able to wait six months or two years.

I have my fingers crossed for everyone, but for the time being...don't quit your day job.

 

[jhp8]

haha, come on man, political views? It's more about being realistic. Maybe it just seems obvious to me because I've worked in and around staffing. Work in LR or employment services for a year or two and then tell me this process is "unfair". The process required to hire one employee is painstaking(I thought most people on this forum might have realized that at this point).

The process to hire one employee is not as painstaking as you make it. I have seen hundreds of people hired at my current and previous employers where the process took less then a month (that is from application to first day). These people had FULL background checks done, fingerprinting, pre-employment testing, and 3 interviews done. I don't disagree there is a lot of work involved, but to say hiring one person should take a year is ridiculous.

 

[Sasho]

The process to hire one employee is not as painstaking as you make it. I have seen hundreds of people hired at my current and previous employers where the process took less then a month (that is from application to first day). These people had FULL background checks done, fingerprinting, pre-employment testing, and 3 interviews done. I don't disagree there is a lot of work involved, but to say hiring one person should take a year is ridiculous.

Was it a federal background check? Like the kind of security we need at the FAA?

 

[MPrice]

The process to hire one employee is not as painstaking as you make it. I have seen hundreds of people hired at my current and previous employers where the process took less then a month (that is from application to first day). These people had FULL background checks done, fingerprinting, pre-employment testing, and 3 interviews done. I don't disagree there is a lot of work involved, but to say hiring one person should take a year is ridiculous.

you dont work at an airport then? i know for us to hire someone a month minimum is a optimistic 2 months is more realistic if your lucky. and i know we still have alot of applications on file but we cant hire them at the moment becuase of budget even though we really do need to hire them (wait isnt that the same thing as the FAA? oh right it is). security clearnce, drug tests, badging, basicly everything that you have to go through for the FAA but on a somewhat smaller scale since where only hiring one person at a time maybe 3 max. there hiring hundereds at a time. yea i do think this time line would get extremly back logged and i expected it to. maybe thats why im not as impatient as some on here because i know what its like to be in there situation.

 

[Sasho]

you dont work at an airport then? i know for us to hire someone a month minimum is a optimistic 2 months is more realistic if your lucky. and i know we still have alot of applications on file but we cant hire them at the moment becuase of budget even though we really do need to hire them (wait isnt that the same thing as the FAA? oh right it is). security clearnce, drug tests, badging, basicly everything that you have to go through for the FAA but on a somewhat smaller scale since where only hiring one person at a time maybe 3 max. there hiring hundereds at a time. yea i do think this time line would get extremly back logged and i expected it to. maybe thats why im not as impatient as some on here because i know what its like to be in there situation.

Exactlly, this happened to me at MDT, what was funnier was I went from being a Flight Attendant to a Ramp Agent and STILL had to go thru the ENTIRE process get re tested and it took from mid sept to nov

 

[Zeppelinpilot]

I just got a job recently as a ramp agent. My company (all ramp agents are work for a contract company at my airport) has two people working in its HR department. They hired a class of 9 in a matter of two weeks.

I am not taking sides in this issue at all. Just saying, it does not take that long to get hired at an airport if the ones doing the hiring have their act together.

 

[MPrice]

I just got a job recently as a ramp agent. My company (all ramp agents are work for a contract company at my airport) has two people working in its HR department. They hired a class of 9 in a matter of two weeks.

I am not taking sides in this issue at all. Just saying, it does not take that long to get hired at an airport if the ones doing the hiring have their act together.

may i ask what airport your at? i know here at MCO it takes a month minimum because of the size of the airport. im sure at smaller airports you can get badged at a much faster rate due to the ladys in HR not being swamped all the time. i know just to get my badge renewed a few weeks ago i had to come in 4 hours early to work just to get through the process just in time to clock in. and that was only them retaking my picture and printing the badge no background check or tests of any sort.

 

[Sasho]

may i ask what airport your at? i know here at MCO it takes a month minimum because of the size of the airport. im sure at smaller airports you can get badged at a much faster rate due to the ladys in HR not being swamped all the time. i know just to get my badge renewed a few weeks ago i had to come in 4 hours early to work just to get through the process just in time to clock in. and that was only them retaking my picture and printing the badge no background check or tests of any sort.

MDT takes as little as two weeks from fingerprints to badge and as much as 6 months

 

[jhp8]

Was it a federal background check? Like the kind of security we need at the FAA?

Well, its hard to say since i am not familiar with how extensive the federal govt background check is. The one I am referring two usually took a full two weeks and included a good bit of detail. The position dealt with a lot of very private customer information (cc#'s, ssn's, etc), so the requirements were pretty stringent.

I know a month is not the norm at most places, but my point is that it can be done a lot quicker then how quickly people are saying. This is not a flame or a insult to HR, they are probably short staffed, but it is a flame at whoever's fault it is for letting them be short-staffed.