Will Delta Pilot's strike?

good call

your absolutely right... i am no expert but Southwest definitly did grow due to USAir's departure.... but thats all i was saying. If one carrier backs out of a destination for one reason or another... a competitor will quickly replace the lost capacity. Eventually capacity will be right back to where it was before. in some cases... the examples are in the full report.. capacity actually increased due to a carriers withdraw from an airport. I am almost positive i think it was American who was backing out of the airport in the report... you could search "american" and find it.
 
Well, all you have to do is take a look at what DFW did after Delta listened to the Wall Street geniuses and cut capacity.

DFW is pushing hard to fill those gates. They're going to get filled. Which means what? Capacity will be right back where it was.

And where it needs to be. Every single projection is for GROWING, not shrinking, demand for air travel.

Now, it seems to me the logical thing to do, when you've got a product with high demand already (80 percent load factors) and the demand is only going to increase, there would be two logical things to do.

First, make sure you're well positioned to take advantage of the growing demand for your product. This of course would require thinking long term, something they must force execs to swear never to do, and if they do that, they'll yank their bonuses and make them pay those back.

Second, raise the price of your product. And if the competiton doesn't, so be it. Since they don't have much excess capacity, the amount of business you lose will be small and you will likely more than make up for the small loss of business with higher revenue per customer.
 
You know the one bad thing about this hearings is that Leo and the gang arent there to answer for the role in the problems that led to Ch 11
 
I think you are absolutely correct Tony; if there is a void in the market it will be filled quickly. The American commercial aviation market has a demand and that demand has not really waived in year, except with 9/11, but then it steadily grew back. All the models say that there will be an increasing demand for air travel. My bets are that some of that will be absorbed in the VLJ-Air Taxi business that spring up but then again that could just create more demand and keep the gains coming. Maybe I'm overly optimistic.

Sleepy, I think the type of work slow-down you propose is sophomoric. I'm sorry but negotiate like an adult. And that is presuming that management does the same thing. But a tit-for-tat style tactics have never succeeded in the long run.

I dunno, I think there are so many ways to look at this whole industry. I got called out last night and we were going to do a stand-up to SUN via JAC. Well I shot the full approach in JAC ILS 19 with the procedure turn and the exceptionally long final in the snow with winds at FL180 at about 90kts. It was so cool. I had a blast. And having that runway appear out of the clouds right in front of you is the best. Knowing that the Grand Teton is a half standard-rate turn away the whole time adds to the excitement for sure.

Yes, I get paid crap and I work really weird hours and sleep in ****e hotels, etc. But I really like flying. People that are just getting into it now will never know the era of the $300K Capt who flies 10 days a month, it's gone. We should fight for our integrity, our respect, our wage, and our lifestyle. This should be a professional that commands respect for the risks that are taken daily and the precipitous thread that our careers hang upon with the FAA looking down our backs, not to mention the lawyers. So I'm not going to fool myself and say the whole thing is jacked because we don't like in the glory days. I'm going to show up and be a damn good pilot and make sure I do everything I can to get respect from my employer, my colleagues, and my pax. And I'm going to enjoy it.
 
khysanth said:
It's weird because Delta is supposed to come into LGB in mid December and start doing 3 daily flights from LGB to SLC. I wonder if they still will. I hope so, it would take some of the stress off of our LGB - SLC flights. :) Always full, no matter what day of the week.
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We got a message last week saying we're starting up new service on Dec 1st from SLC-LAS, SLC-LGB, and one more I can't remember.
 
"I'm sorry but negotiate like an adult"

It's unfortunate that the RLA and airline management have that ineffective.

Great post, though, Ophir.
 
Tim said:
You know the one bad thing about this hearings is that Leo and the gang arent there to answer for the role in the problems that led to Ch 11
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I know, they really should sequester them, bring them in to talk about their two bit plan to make themselves millions while putting the company in complete jeopardy.
 
mrivc211 said:
Could this be? Could this be precedent being set by the DAL pilots? Are they the ones that finally had the cajones to stand up for what they thought was right, instead of caving in like the rest of them. Who else will do the same? Who else will take back what the rest of the pilots of the past 100 years fought so hard to earn?

OK- I'm off the soap box now!
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What really takes cajones is standing on the side lines with nothing at risk and yelling for someone else to sacrifice it all. It's their careers, their call, their consequences.
 
flyover said:
What really takes cajones is standing on the side lines with nothing at risk and yelling for someone else to sacrifice it all. It's their careers, their call, their consequences.
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Oh I dunno that fact that he works at Skywest a DL contract carrier might make what is going to, or possibly going to happen somewhat personal to him.
Also factor in that he is hoping this movement by DL pilots galvanizes an industry. He might also care because the new Skywest contract wasn't all what the pilots wanted.
And with the subsequent ASA purchase it could start a Z payscale at one of the two regionals. That and growth will being only to going the airline with the lowest cost!

So yea...think he has a stake in the upcoming events. Maybe not as much as others but he has a stake in the outcome!

-Matthew

P.S. I myself a future aspiring commercial pilot have a stake in whats going on as well.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Oh I dunno that fact that he works at Skywest a DL contract carrier might make what is going to, or possibly going to happen somewhat personal to him.
Also factor in that he is hoping this movement by DL pilots galvanizes an industry. He might also care because the new Skywest contract wasn't all what the pilots wanted.
And with the subsequent ASA purchase it could start a Z payscale at one of the two regionals. That and growth will being only to going the airline with the lowest cost!

So yea...think he has a stake in the upcoming events. Maybe not as much as others but he has a stake in the outcome!

-Matthew

P.S. I myself a future aspiring commercial pilot have a stake in whats going on as well.
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Point taken if he works for Skywest, but this was over the top: Are they the ones that finally had the cajones to stand up for what they thought was right, instead of caving in like the rest of them.

Who are these "cavers" he's talking about? And does he really not understand that employee groups of a bankrupt carrier have little to no leverage, making these heroic stands he's encouraging almost career suicide?

I still say that if the Delta pilots decide not to strike right now it doesn't make them "cavers who aren't standing up for what they think is right", whatever the heck that is supposed to mean.
 
flyover said:
I still say that if the Delta pilots decide not to strike right now it doesn't make them "cavers who aren't standing up for what they think is right", whatever the heck that is supposed to mean.
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Okay...well after I say what I'm bouta say you can call me the names you called Omar.
But I'm of the STFD mentality. If management wants to play games like voiding the pilots contract forcing them to horrible work rules and even lower pay why then should the pilots contine to come to work day in and day out just to be shafted.
At some point you gotta take a stand. Reach back and feel that long boney vertebra keeping one standing upright. This is about lots of thing most importantly respect. The pilots are the most qualified,educated and trained employees at an airline and therefore should be paid accordingly. Management has been playing pilots against one another for years now. Degrading the industry and making it a horrible place to make a career. If one pilot group is willing to burn the •er down to show one and all that no more,were not gonna take it and that yes you will recognize & respect us I say go for it.
Because to not to will only justify managements underhanded tactics and make it more widespread. While pilot pay and work rules continue to go down the crapper and airline pilots top out at $80-90k or worse.
Look I don't have as much invested as say Doug or Kristie,or Amber or Bill or hell even you (aren't you getting a pension from DL).
But Delta has been my favorite airline since childhood. Their the airline I most want to fly for. They were once a proud & respectable family orientated airline in their glory days and with the right help I hope that can return to that.

-Matthew
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Okay...well after I say what I'm bouta say you can call me the names you called Omar.
But I'm of the STFD mentality. If management wants to play games like voiding the pilots contract forcing them to horrible work rules and even lower pay why then should the pilots contine to come to work day in and day out just to be shafted.
At some point you gotta take a stand. Reach back and feel that long boney vertebra keeping one standing upright. This is about lots of thing most importantly respect. The pilots are the most qualified,educated and trained employees at an airline and therefore should be paid accordingly. Management has been playing pilots against one another for years now. Degrading the industry and making it a horrible place to make a career. If one pilot group is willing to burn the •er down to show one and all that no more,were not gonna take it and that yes you will recognize & respect us I say go for it.
Because to not to will only justify managements underhanded tactics and make it more widespread. While pilot pay and work rules continue to go down the crapper and airline pilots top out at $80-90k or worse.
Look I don't have as much invested as say Doug or Kristie,or Amber or Bill or hell even you (aren't you getting a pension from DL).
But Delta has been my favorite airline since childhood. Their the airline I most want to fly for. They were once a proud & respectable family orientated airline in their glory days and with the right help I hope that can return to that.

-Matthew
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Thumbs up
 
Flyover- What am I supposed to do? Call up my rep? Oh yeah thats right, we don't have one. The place I work for is by far one of the better places out there. Do I plan to make it a career here? No. The places that I would like to see my career finish are turning out to be not worth it.
You see...........what you think is only YOUR vested interest is actually all of ours. We're all in this together, regardless of whether it effects me directly or not. Because in some way, it still effects me indirectly.

Not trying to disrespect. I come from the old skool of thought, respect your elders, understand that people with more experience than you know more for a reason. However, do you think we "regional" pilots who supposedly don't have a vested interest in the majors like to see another pilot group shafted and lose their life long career go down the tubes? Where does that leave us guys at the regional level? No Where! And until some people at the majors see we could be much stronger if we worked together, none of this will get better.

There are no words that can be said about the amount of respect I have for these gray haired four stripers asking for a jump seat day in and day out. Who am I to decide whether they can ride our jumpseat? Just some punk who has yet to gain something from this mess. Those guys have my respect.

We don't salivate to see you guys lose more flying and take more cuts at the majors. So for me to say thank god someone stood up to management is not out of line. Just because I may not be at your company yet. Or some other. It is still in MY vested interest to take a stand. And to see my future career taking a stand.
 
Kristie said:
I know, they really should sequester them, bring them in to talk about their two bit plan to make themselves millions while putting the company in complete jeopardy.
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Do you mean subpoena?
And I totally agree with you, Kristie. These corporate execs. need to explain their rationale. Why do they get the golden parachute and everyone else gets a kick in da nutz? If a bk court doesn't want to know why these people run a company into the ground and come out stinking rich, I would think the investors/ stock holders would want to know. This nonsense has gone on too long in corporate america.....it isn't airline exclusive either. Too many greedy execs. use a company for their personal gain and screw the people that make a company great---the employees.

It's time to make the execs. accountable for their actions!
 
mrivc211 said:
However, do you think we "regional" pilots who supposedly don't have a vested interest in the majors like to see another pilot group shafted and lose their life long career go down the tubes?
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That's my point. It's THEIR career on the line, not yours. And even if you may be effected by their decision, it's still their decision. I think your comments show that you are clueless about just how much leverage the pilot groups at these bankrupt carriers have. Their leadership has to be circumspect, because it will be very easy to make an emotional move that seems noble at the time but proves disastrous. It's happened too many times in the past.

Believe me, many at Delta were encouraging groups like USAir and United to "stand up" but it was motivated by a desire to see someone else fall on their sword, thus saving them. (As had already happened before since deregulation.) It's a different matter when it's you in the crosshairs. Your family, your career, your decision for your future.
 
Cruise said:
If a bk court doesn't want to know why these people run a company into the ground and come out stinking rich, I would think the investors/ stock holders would want to know.
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Good point. A bankruptcy court is not the forum to squabble about past mistakes. Hopefully it's the place to turn the corner and build a new future. It's not unheard of at all for companies to exit BK and have bright futures.

But there are civil remedies for corporate malfeasance. And a civil court would be the place to pursue them. It's not likely to happen though. The truth of the matter is that these things happen because the owners of the company (stockholders) let them happen. Even encourage them. And we can't forget that the ALPA supported the recruiting and hiring of Leo, thinking it was an improvement over the long standing policy of promoting from within. So they got a hotshot exec who expected the big bucks. Time to forget about Leo and move on.
 
I had an interesting conversation about the Delta situation today. I ran into an old boss of mine whose husband happens to be a higher up at Delta. To make a long story short she told me management is hoping the pilots strike. She told me her husband says that Delta feels they will have no problem getting people to cross the picket line. And in the end it will be a replay of the whole Continental situation where all the scabs were integrated back into union and given real seniority numbers.
 
mrivc211 said:
flyover said:
That's my point. It's THEIR career on the line, not yours. /QUOTE]

And the struggle to communicate still continues.
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You work at a non-union airline that's "by far one of the better places out there" so you won't even be in a position to send dues money to striking Delta pilots. The effect on your situation at Skywest is impossible to predict and could even be favorable under some scenarios. Yet I just don't understand why you don't have as much at stake as the Delta pilots do? Yeah, you won't be able to communicate that one to me. Unless you plan to adopt a Delta pilot's family and support them for the rest of your career. Then I'd be in favor of you getting a strike vote.

My original problem wasn't with you having an opinion and still isn't. It's with your suggestion that groups that don't strike over paycuts in a bankruptcy are "cavers who don't stand up for what they think is right."
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