What trends are you seeing in the people going from 1500 to a major?

[Ian_J]

Okay gotta ask 737 pyloettes, what’s with not putting a runway at the destination airport? Doesn’t the ATIS tell you which way they are landing? If there is a change mid-air, what’s the biggie? What am I missing?

I didn't know not putting it in was a thing. At my company on the 73 we're trained to throw in the expected runway and I've never seen anyone not do it. Naturally the runway changes all the time - like you said - no biggie.

Just checked our flight manual - it tells us to put it in.

 

[killbilly]

Our FMS won't cough up every available STAR without a runway.

It's weird, but, for example, you can't load the (I think that's the one) GIBBZ arrival into IAD without giving it a runway first. So I usually pull Wx, digital ATIS if available, and put a runway in just to have one, and it's a happy accident if it turns out I was right. This can backfire on really short turns (IAD-CHO) because we will be running the approach checklist when they change runways on us. @Yakob is, I'm sure, familiar with this.

 

[SeanD]

This is a good thread because I remember a time when many here would be talking about garbage turns into CAK, brutal reserve schedules, 7 year upgrades, crew scheduling mishaps, and other regional airline problems. Now y'all talking about piloting large jets to international destinations and upgrading to skippers on Airbus and Boeings. A proud moment for the JC community IMO.

 

[CFIT99]

when I was a junior CA at F9, I mostly flew with BRAND new FO's, barely off OE (usually straight from Riddle, Purdue and some didn't have enough ME time to get the ATP and needed extra sim sessions), all knew the airplane well beyond what you needed, but the good ones asked questions, inquired about why I was doing something, it was a joy to fly with them.

on the other hand, the ones that's didn't well it was a pain in the ass and I essentially was in a single pilot op.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Okay gotta ask 737 pyloettes, what’s with not putting a runway at the destination airport? Doesn’t the ATIS tell you which way they are landing? If there is a change mid-air, what’s the biggie? What am I missing?

It's not the runway that matters. It's the STAR. Until you enter a landing runway, the route will end at the last fix on the STAR prior to where it branches off for the various runways. After that it will insert a discontinuity.

In some cities those branches occur hundreds of miles from the airport. So if you are watching fuel to make sure you have the information to know where you stand with regard to fuel burn to alternates, or watching weather and trying to guess it's impact on fuel on arrival... or even changing altitude for a smoother ride and wanting to go lower... you want as accurate a fuel prediction as possible.

It may only amount to a few hundred pounds difference but I like to have the entirity of the flight plan loaded.

If it changes down the road due to a runway change (hello Denver) so be it, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. But for what amounts to two button presses, why would you not improve the fidelity of your fuel plan even if it is just an early plan?

 

[derg]

i throw everything in, including expected runway.

it’s largely just preference for me.

 

[DE727UPS]

We didn't have to worry about any of this crap back in the 727 days. We were radar vector equipped. That was it.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

when I was a junior CA at F9, I mostly flew with BRAND new FO's, barely off OE (usually straight from Riddle, Purdue and some didn't have enough ME time to get the ATP and needed extra sim sessions), all knew the airplane well beyond what you needed, but the good ones asked questions, inquired about why I was doing something, it was a joy to fly with them.

on the other hand, the ones that's didn't well it was a pain in the ass and I essentially was in a single pilot op.

We informally called a rule intended to award any open pairing at SkyWest preferentially to a pilot with less than 100 hours in type “the MSP/DTW Rule,” so I know what this feels like.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Well if a reduced pilot takes a vacancy spot, he won’t reduce someone else out - his reduction is satisfied because he left. That’s actually better I would think.

The ones reducing will be the ones who bid LAX 320 CA as #1. Those guys will be an unpredictable mess.

For Seattle if 25 FOs take the 25 vacancies then anyone being reduced will bump existing captains out based on seniority.

 

[scooter2525]

The fact you had to say “get off the internet” on OE…ughhhhhhh

i throw everything in, including expected runway.

it’s largely just preference for me.

Current FMS causes the hamster wheel to overheat doing this. Although filed arrival is okay.

 

[Richman]

We didn't have to worry about any of this crap back in the 727 days. We were radar vector equipped. That was it.

The 727 was a most triumphant conveyance.

 

[BobDDuck]

Our FMS won't cough up every available STAR without a runway.

That's pretty normal. ICAO does runway specific stars (normally by adding a letter to the end) so to cut down on having to scroll through 30 almost identical STARS in the box, it filters them by runway. And then of course you have places like KIX that have 3 stars with the same name but different letters to the same runway.

 

[killbilly]

That's pretty normal. ICAO does runway specific stars (normally by adding a letter to the end) so to cut down on having to scroll through 30 almost identical STARS in the box, it filters them by runway. And then of course you have places like KIX that have 3 stars with the same name but different letters to the same runway.

ah, interesting. I assumed it was intentional for our box to operate that way but no one has been able to tell me why that was.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

For Seattle if 25 FOs take the 25 vacancies then anyone being reduced will bump existing captains out based on seniority.

But it still depends on their seniority. If the 25 FOs who take the upgrade are junior to you, then they are still the ones who are reduced out. Vacancies happen first, and then reductions. That’s why the union tells all FOs who put in for upgrade: bid your desired CA slots AND your desired FO slots, in proper order.

 

[BobDDuck]

ah, interesting. I assumed it was intentional for our box to operate that way but no one has been able to tell me why that was.

For example Incheon uses different STARS (and SIDS) depending on the arrival gate, the runway in use, plus the time of day.

Aerodrome <!--page title-->

If you scroll way down to 2.22 and then look at 1.5, which is assignment of SID and STAR, you can get a sense of how it works to at least preload something. In order to "help" keep you on track, the FMS, on Le Bus anyways, will filter out arrivals that don't go to the runway you've selected.

 

[derg]

Current FMS causes the hamster wheel to overheat doing this. Although filed arrival is okay.

What type of box (giggity) do you have?

 

[CFIT99]

What type of box (giggity) do you have?

I giggled way more than I should have over this ….

 

[ASpilot2be]

I giggled way more than I should have over this ….

 

[Hiboglossi]

Our FMS won't cough up every available STAR without a runway.

It's weird, but, for example, you can't load the (I think that's the one) GIBBZ arrival into IAD without giving it a runway first. So I usually pull Wx, digital ATIS if available, and put a runway in just to have one, and it's a happy accident if it turns out I was right. This can backfire on really short turns (IAD-CHO) because we will be running the approach checklist when they change runways on us. @Yakob is, I'm sure, familiar with this.

Seems like the issue with CHO-IAD is you are always filed just CHO-CSN-KIAD; and are usually cleared as filed. But if they're landing south, once you talk to Potomac Approach they tell you to join either the GIBBZ arrival for 19C or 19R; or the Cavalier arrival for 19L. And you never know which one it will be before you take off as IAD seems to change the runways in use every 10 minutes and it's about 50-50 whether it will be the GIBBZ or the Cavalier for that route.

 

[BobDDuck]

Seems like the issue with CHO-IAD is you are always filed just CHO-CSN-KIAD; and are usually cleared as filed. But if they're landing south, once you talk to Potomac Approach they tell you to join either the GIBBZ arrival for 19C or 19R; or the Cavalier arrival for 19L. And you never know which one it will be before you take off as IAD seems to change the runways in use every 10 minutes and it's about 50-50 whether it will be the GIBBZ or the Cavalier for that route.

Do you not have a secondary flight plane page?