What made you choose freight?

No one gets fired from AMF that doesn't thoroughly deserve it. If you make bad decision there's a good chance that will happen. That is the only thing I ever saw people get fired for. TERRIBLE decision making. As in flying non-airworthy airplanes and just doing incredibly stupid things. I'm not one to generally defend AMF, but what the guy above posted is bs.
If anyone is going below mins, that's on them and the one time I know of management hearing about that, they fired the guy. Again, bad decision making. I went missed 3 times one day from the same airport. I never heard anything about it. If they did, they could pound sand. I was flying, not them.
 
I flew 135 freight and had a blast doing it. It was the first company that offered me a job so I took it and I am glad that I did. The flight department was great, I never felt pressured into doing something I didn't want to or that was illegal, and even though the planes were beat up they were well maintained.
 
99driver said:
I only did freight because mid-2008 when I had the hours, everybody (121) was furloughing. I did 3+ years at Ameriflight until the economy recovered somewhat then I went 121.
Let me speak from experience: STAY AWAY FROM 135 FREIGHT. It is the easiest way to jack up your resume. For example, my new hire class consisted of 6 pilots. Over the 3 years, all were fired except me. They want you to fly broken planes, go below minimums to get into places. They treat you like a wuss if you refuse a broken airplane. If you squak a plane with a minor issue the other pilots will talk trash behind your back in the office (heard that stuff all the time). The hours suck. Most weeks I worked 6 days.
Management sucks if your are not buddy-buddy. I was asked by the director of training about my opinion of gays in the military (he is gay, and was thinking about making me a training captain). Equal opportunity? I think not. Oh yeah, and they will try to convince you that they will have a flow-up program with Southwest hahaha.
Take my advice: ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY GO 121!!!! Do yourself a favor. The only thing I got out of Ameriflight is 1500 turbine pic (which will get me almost nowhere). 121 (even regional) is a thousand times better. Better pay (despite what AMF'rs tell you), way better schedule, way better management (in most cases). In my second year at a regional I made 15K more than I did my third year at AMF.
So other than that, I don't think it really matters where you go :)
Click to expand...
Regarding the bold. Nope
Regarding the red. them! I squak broken things, divert around weather, and the cargo STILL gets there on time. There are some real here, that is for sure, but I take comfort in knowing they will be the ones that are going to get fired someday, or worse. Does that stuff really bother you? I've only met one other pilot that was legitimately serious in their criticisms about my conservative decision making, again, them! :) The rest is only tongue in cheek ribbing.
Regarding the blue, any of your flight time that you dismiss definitely isn't going to help you. Seems to me that we're both posting at 2:30 in the morning eh? :)

The rest varies. Other bases are worse than others(BUR, OMA, BUF, and DFW are fine) but the main thing I notice about the guys that bitch, is that they didn't want to fly freight. They saw the TPIC carrot and jumped at it blindly. There are ZERO secrets with what flying freight is like. Including AMF. APCs pay scale is accurate and the schedules are online. Don't like it when you get here, your fault. Before anyone accuses me of being an Ameriflight cheerleader, I roll my eyes just as much at guys bitching in the airline pilot section and on APC.
 
99driver said:
I only did freight because mid-2008 when I had the hours, everybody (121) was furloughing. I did 3+ years at Ameriflight until the economy recovered somewhat then I went 121.
Let me speak from experience: STAY AWAY FROM 135 FREIGHT. It is the easiest way to jack up your resume. For example, my new hire class consisted of 6 pilots. Over the 3 years, all were fired except me. They want you to fly broken planes, go below minimums to get into places. They treat you like a wuss if you refuse a broken airplane. If you squak a plane with a minor issue the other pilots will talk trash behind your back in the office (heard that stuff all the time). The hours suck. Most weeks I worked 6 days.
Management sucks if your are not buddy-buddy. I was asked by the director of training about my opinion of gays in the military (he is gay, and was thinking about making me a training captain). Equal opportunity? I think not. Oh yeah, and they will try to convince you that they will have a flow-up program with Southwest hahaha.
Take my advice: ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY GO 121!!!! Do yourself a favor. The only thing I got out of Ameriflight is 1500 turbine pic (which will get me almost nowhere). 121 (even regional) is a thousand times better. Better pay (despite what AMF'rs tell you), way better schedule, way better management (in most cases). In my second year at a regional I made 15K more than I did my third year at AMF.
So other than that, I don't think it really matters where you go :)
Click to expand...

A forum full of freight dogs probably isnt the best place to go spewing BS about flying freight.
 
cmill said:
A forum full of freight dogs probably isnt the best place to go spewing BS about flying freight.
Click to expand...
I am also a freight dawg. I did it for over three years. But I am also smart enough to realize that those three years were simply a means to an end. If you love freight so much, go ahead and make a career of it.
I loved the flying, but the fact is, most freight companies pay like crap and want you to fly broke crap. Not my cup of tea, if 121 is an option (it wan not when I went the freight route).
And if my BS is so offensive I have a simple cure: don't read it. Or is my irresistible charisma shining through even here? ;)
 
Every operator is different. I had FAR more trouble with broken airplanes being "unofficially deferred" flying JEEETTTTTSSSSS full of rich people than I ever did flying freight. Two of the places I flew freight might have been willing to "look the other way" if you elected to fly a plane with something minor that didn't work quite right (provided they didn't *ahem* officially know about it), but they'd certainly never have pressured you to fly it, and there were zero repercussions for writing things up. At the third one I think your job would have been in more danger from NOT writing something up than the reverse. My experience was that the "bad old days" of freight are well behind us. Hell, at Subair I once had the CP tell me NOT to fly a perfectly airworthy airplane through weather that was bad-but-not-that-bad after I told him I didn't think it would be a problem. Not, I think, because he thought it would end in tears, but because they have a very serious attitude about safety and compliance and didn't want anyone saying "Oh, there go those crazy freight guys again". BTW, they paid VERY well for the equipment and my experience level.

The moral (if there is such a thing) is to investigate your employers and their culture. I was fortunate enough to work only for companies that I'm proud to put on my resume, and I should add that I have not been to an interview since where my time in freight wasn't brought up. In every instance, the comment was something like "Well, I see you flew a lot of freight, so we can assume you can fly an airplane...tell me about yourself". YMMV, etc etc.

PS. 99driver is a weird name for a guy who hates freight.
 
I've seen Ameriflight hold pilots back from going. It's night and day compared to Flight Express. Of course, I was by myself in STP, so the ZERO oversight might have been expected. I don't know if Steve was the PM dispatcher when you were there, but I do remember the intense worry in his voice on some nights, so maybe a little oversight but was never ever told to stay put. "Steve it's alright, I'm a HUGE pansy and am diverting hundreds of miles around that storm." :)
 
Flying freight was one of the best aviation experiences that I've had. Yes, flying a jet in the middle of summer that has air conditioning is awesome. Without a doubt, flying the C210 and Baron around the Midwest through some of the worst weather makes you a true decision maker. Some of the Captains I fly with make fun of me because I'm like ask for XYZ because it'll be a smoother ride. They rib me, some ask, some don't, and more often I'm right. Had to hand fly a jet for 2.5 hours and I was stoked, AP was deferred. The Capt had never had to hand fly and didn't know what it was like. He was afraid to actually hand fly the plane it seems. I wish I could've gotten some TPIC while flying freight, but FLX didn't have any turbines and it wasn't going to happen once the Bayside buyout occurred. Otherwise, I never would've left.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I will have my 135 mins about midway through this year. I have been thinking a lot lately about what I want to do. I could wait until I have my ATP mins and go the regional route, but there is a lot that doesn't appeal to me about flying for a 121 operation. The more I think about it, the more I think I'd like to go the 135 cargo route. Somewhere like Ameriflight or Key Lime or Air Cargo Carriers. I want to fly a Metro, Shorts, or something I won't be able to fly for a 121 op and I want to be able to say I flew single-pilot IFR ops. What made you choose the freight route?
Click to expand...



Where do you see yourself 5 or 10 years from now, and then decide what you would like to do. The situation I am seeing with younger pilots is the hurry to the top of the food chain. No easy answer unless you are well connected with multiple people in the industry. Many regional airlines and part 135 freight carrier jobs can be achieved without knowing a soul. You will need great connections and skills or both to get an interview at a legacy carrier. I have been in aviation for 35 years in which it took me 25 years to reach a large cargo airline. It may not take you or others that long but you should realize it is a very long road. Good luck!
 
I have no illusions that the road may be long... I am prepared for that and I am also prepared to enjoy the journey no matter what the path ends up being. I've only been in aviation for 3 years (1 of them professionally) so I am still not exactly sure what I would like to do. It seems to me that there are many paths to happiness (and financial ruin) in aviation. I've met Gulfstream CAs who love their job and others who hate it. Same with freight-drivers and legacy CAs. I think it's all about perspective and expectation management. I read something on here and I don't remember who it was posted by but it struck a chord with me... It was something like, "Dont let other people's definition of success define yours and ultimately affect your happiness". Or something like that.

I want to fly freight for the simple reasons that it would allow me the opportunity to fly turboprop equipment I couldn't fly anywhere else, and it will make me a great pilot. I think my ultimate goals are to end up working for a legacy carrier (maybe UA, I know several pilots there) but I would like to get my 1,000 TPIC before going to a regional or a corporate department somewhere. There aren't many regionals that appeal to me so I will have to see how things are when I'm ready for that. As it is now, only 1 or 2 would appeal to me enough to not fly 135 first. I also have an opportunity to work as an FO for the charter company my flight school is partnered with but as with all things in aviation, there are no guarantees and I'm open to anything.
 
UAL747400 said:
Regarding the bold. Nope
Regarding the red. them! I squak broken things, divert around weather, and the cargo STILL gets there on time. There are some real here, that is for sure, but I take comfort in knowing they will be the ones that are going to get fired someday, or worse. Does that stuff really bother you? I've only met one other pilot that was legitimately serious in their criticisms about my conservative decision making, again, them! :) The rest is only tongue in cheek ribbing.
Regarding the blue, any of your flight time that you dismiss definitely isn't going to help you. Seems to me that we're both posting at 2:30 in the morning eh? :)

The rest varies. Other bases are worse than others(BUR, OMA, BUF, and DFW are fine) but the main thing I notice about the guys that bitch, is that they didn't want to fly freight. They saw the TPIC carrot and jumped at it blindly. There are ZERO secrets with what flying freight is like. Including AMF. APCs pay scale is accurate and the schedules are online. Don't like it when you get here, your fault. Before anyone accuses me of being an Ameriflight cheerleader, I roll my eyes just as much at guys bitching in the airline pilot section and on APC.
Click to expand...

Some of what he says is true. I have been grilled by management about squawking an aircraft at an outstation before a flight when there was a deep 4 inch crack in the sidewall of a tire. It was my fault because I didn't find it on a post-flight inspection (which I had done). The fact that the FBO had moved the aircraft while I was away and could have taken one of the tires off-roading was apparently not to be considered. Also the fact that the location of the crack made it hard to see and they could have just as easily missed it. Maint told me it was a great find. Management said the opposite. Management just runs on the assumption that the pilot is being negligent unless something obvious smacks em in the face about the situation. Would be nice to see a clear collection of facts before any action is taken.

Some of the schedules are available online. People assume they can hold a run via seniority but that heavily depends on the base. What you are told in your interview and indoc really only applies to bases that still have bank runs. Actual base schedules are not available until you pass your checkride and they are subject to change with little to no notice. People at CVG quit because they get sick of the rotating schedule that has them do one run for a week then sit reserve at the airport from 8PM to 8AM (covering both AM and PM shifts) and only getting paid for 8 hours. 6 day weeks are also the norm. Changing of sleep schedules can happen on the fly due to poor planning. You will rarely find anything in CVG that is actually based off the employee handbook. That is unless it saves the company money.

To be honest though some people squawk things that are ridiculous. I have seen people deny aircraft when a good amount of a liquid fell out of a Metro's gear door when they opened it. Maint brings it in and finds only water had accumulated. It had rained that night and water collected in the gear doors. It is actually normal for the metro when you get a good rain. The lack of an easy troubleshooting method of "smell the liquid" caused a fun plane swap and a possible delay. I'm not sure if they had a plane available to swap out even as we are currently short on airframes.

I don't blame people for not wanting to fly broken planes, but please troubleshoot before touching the maint logbook. Worst case scenario you end up giving maint more information about the problem so they can fix it right the first time.

Personally I knew what to expect going into freight. I did my homework. I don't regret my time in freight as I learned a ton more by not having my hand held. Cargo is good for the experience but it is a "get your time and get out" type of job. I wouldn't stick around expecting a career job right after leaving. At the same time I don't expect people to ignore my time in freight.
 
Maurus said:
Some of what he says is true. I have been grilled by management about squawking an aircraft at an outstation before a flight when there was a deep 4 inch crack in the sidewall of a tire. It was my fault because I didn't find it on a post-flight inspection (which I had done). The fact that the FBO had moved the aircraft while I was away and could have taken one of the tires off-roading was apparently not to be considered. Also the fact that the location of the crack made it hard to see and they could have just as easily missed it. Maint told me it was a great find. Management said the opposite. Management just runs on the assumption that the pilot is being negligent unless something obvious smacks em in the face about the situation. Would be nice to see a clear collection of facts before any action is taken.

Some of the schedules are available online. People assume they can hold a run via seniority but that heavily depends on the base. What you are told in your interview and indoc really only applies to bases that still have bank runs. Actual base schedules are not available until you pass your checkride and they are subject to change with little to no notice. People at CVG quit because they get sick of the rotating schedule that has them do one run for a week then sit reserve at the airport from 8PM to 8AM (covering both AM and PM shifts) and only getting paid for 8 hours. 6 day weeks are also the norm. Changing of sleep schedules can happen on the fly due to poor planning. You will rarely find anything in CVG that is actually based off the employee handbook. That is unless it saves the company money.

To be honest though some people squawk things that are ridiculous. I have seen people deny aircraft when a good amount of a liquid fell out of a Metro's gear door when they opened it. Maint brings it in and finds only water had accumulated. It had rained that night and water collected in the gear doors. It is actually normal for the metro when you get a good rain. The lack of an easy troubleshooting method of "smell the liquid" caused a fun plane swap and a possible delay. I'm not sure if they had a plane available to swap out even as we are currently short on airframes.

I don't blame people for not wanting to fly broken planes, but please troubleshoot before touching the maint logbook. Worst case scenario you end up giving maint more information about the problem so they can fix it right the first time.

Personally I knew what to expect going into freight. I did my homework. I don't regret my time in freight as I learned a ton more by not having my hand held. Cargo is good for the experience but it is a "get your time and get out" type of job. I wouldn't stick around expecting a career job right after leaving. At the same time I don't expect people to ignore my time in freight.
Click to expand...
Actually you can get to the pilot portal from the Ameriflight website and access the schedule on the home page of that without a login.

Yes on the rest.
 
UAL747400 said:
Actually you can get to the pilot portal from the Ameriflight website and access the schedule on the home page of that without a login.

Yes on the rest.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking the schedule the customer sets. I have no problem getting up early and coming back late. My problem is not being able to hold a specific run. Not knowing if I am doing a specific run ahead of time. I have been scheduled for days off with plans only to get tossed on a run in the blink of an eye. No calls, just a random change to the schedule. Sometimes not even that. That is where QOL blows up. I would likely be at a different base had I known a senior captain was = to a new hire when scheduling was concerned.
 
Yeah stay away from such places. The rotations are there to make everyone pissed equally for some reason. :ooh:
 
99driver said:
I only did freight because mid-2008 when I had the hours, everybody (121) was furloughing. I did 3+ years at Ameriflight until the economy recovered somewhat then I went 121.
Let me speak from experience: STAY AWAY FROM 135 FREIGHT. It is the easiest way to jack up your resume. For example, my new hire class consisted of 6 pilots. Over the 3 years, all were fired except me. They want you to fly broken planes, go below minimums to get into places. They treat you like a wuss if you refuse a broken airplane. If you squak a plane with a minor issue the other pilots will talk trash behind your back in the office (heard that stuff all the time). The hours suck. Most weeks I worked 6 days.
Management sucks if your are not buddy-buddy. I was asked by the director of training about my opinion of gays in the military (he is gay, and was thinking about making me a training captain). Equal opportunity? I think not. Oh yeah, and they will try to convince you that they will have a flow-up program with Southwest hahaha.
Take my advice: ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY GO 121!!!! Do yourself a favor. The only thing I got out of Ameriflight is 1500 turbine pic (which will get me almost nowhere). 121 (even regional) is a thousand times better. Better pay (despite what AMF'rs tell you), way better schedule, way better management (in most cases). In my second year at a regional I made 15K more than I did my third year at AMF.
So other than that, I don't think it really matters where you go :)
Click to expand...

I can't argue with too much of this. I have seen people either forced to resign, or fired for something a little extra training would have fixed. I have also seen a bunch of people fired for doing dumb •. Pulling both firewall shutoff valves in flight in a Beech 99? You should be taken out back and shot for being so stupid. I was friends with the training dept and management, I still am, but I am sure they talk about me just like the did everyone else. The "SWA flow" bs is really sad. I used to think it was funny how they would tell people that in indoc, and people would believe it. Hell I know there are current AMF guys that will read this and will not believe it, because they are so convinced/hopeful that it is true. SWA could care less about AMF pilots, I know because I know several. Southwest doesn't hold AMF in any higher regard than the other freight operators. There is no AMF to SWA flow, or hiring pool, or preferential interviewing. There is nothing. What makes it so sad is there are many individuals who are seemingly intelligent, that are just waiting for SWA to bud their door down, and carry them on over to SWA on the red carpet. All I can do is scratch my head at that. What I would argue with, is the definitely go 121. If you don't have a desire to go 121, then there is no reason to. I still don't understand it, but there are people out there that are very happy living on 45k a year for the rest of their life, being home every night for 5 hours, and flying brown boxes 6 days a week. With the airlines, there is no fluff. No promises, or delusions. With certain 135 operators, it is largely fluff. They will tell you they pay more, have better QOL, can squeak right by the regionals and onto the majors, home every night etc etc. It is all crap.
 
Inverted said:
With the airlines, there is no fluff. No promises, or delusions.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't go that far. I figure you get a lot of the same crap just different atmosphere.

Personally I have never heard them push SWA as having a flow or anything. They might have before our time at AMF but I haven't seen the hype. I even asked about it in my interview and they were wary about saying anything about it. When asked in my indoc they essentially said we were lucky to have the jumpseat agreement.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top