What made you choose freight?

[Polar742]

Maybe because the big jet pilots have unions and some semblance of job security and the feeders are constantly told that the contracts that provide their paychecks are up for bid every 30 days.

I'm not saying that I fly "aggressively," but I do know how to do the routes I fly efficiently. I know exactly when and where I can ask for direct and expect to get it. I know that coming from the east that if DEN is landing to the south that asking for direct to a VOR north of the field will save me two or three minutes while the canned flight plan that takes me to a VOR south of the field will just add time getting vectored to the north of the field anyway. And I know they I better have each driver's name written down and EXACTLY what time they got to the airplane because that gives dispatch something to go to bat for me with if I block out two minutes late.

And I know all the clocks in our aircraft are set 2-3 minutes slow.

My union doesn't protect me if our performance as a company doesn't meet the contractual standard between my company & the customer. Which may trigger either penalties or forfeit the remaining contract duration.

Some of our contracts are indeed short-term 30 day contracts. Right now we are in a renewal period with a longtime customer.

That said, it does me no good to get violated, hurt or suspended to appease a customer commitment. It does me no good to abuse the equipment (metal fatigue, motors blowing up, parts jettisoning off of the airframe, tail drags- all happened here and each one is a two comma problem just for the machine. Not including lost revenue - about 35k/hr with the jet in the air 10-16 hours a day for the whale)

Unless you are a network carrier or integrator, we're all competing everyday to stay off food stamps. Even if you're on point, it may not work out. Ask ABX and AStar guys.....

 

[TallFlyer]

My union comments were more directed towards the differences in job security between UPS pilots and their feeders.

From what I know of the ACMI world you guys are much more like us than you are UPS.

 

[Tommay85]

...and Friday power!

 

[Polar742]

My union comments were more directed towards the differences in job security between UPS pilots and their feeders.

From what I know of the ACMI world you guys are much more like us than you are UPS.

Again, that's not a union issue. The day-to-day or month-to-month contract is between your management and UPS management.

Unions can set a scope clause, and do. UPS's scope clause only affects the size of the feeder planes. However, we fly lots of UPS freight at peak and also their Supply Chain Solutions for example.

Big differences. It's not the union forcing a 30 day look contract, it's UPS management.

 

[TallFlyer]

Again, that's not a union issue. The day-to-day or month-to-month contract is between your management and UPS management.

Unions can set a scope clause, and do. UPS's scope clause only affects the size of the feeder planes. However, we fly lots of UPS freight at peak and also their Supply Chain Solutions for example.

Big differences. It's not the union forcing a 30 day look contract, it's UPS management.

I wasn't trying to suggest that the IPA had anything to do with how UPS management handles their feeder contracts. And I don't really have any inside scoop on how UPS management interacts with their pilot group on a day to day basis regarding on time departures, arrivals, etc. From the two dozen or so times I've been in a UPS cockpit jumpseating the pilots are ready to rock as soon as the ramp personnel are done and the paperwork is complete. Push back, taxi out, and get the heck out of dodge.

But what I do know is that UPS pilots are not operating under the pressure that a few late arrivals, departures, etc, would cause 70% of the company's revenue to disappear if their one customer decided to take its business elsewhere. The feeders by and large do (or at least we do where I work). Fortunately our management is very proactive about giving us the tools to meet those requirements. Also, the UPS pilot group has the IPA to act as a buffer between management and themselves, normalizing the relationship somewhat.We have no such thing.

 

[dasleben]

But what I do know is that UPS pilots are not operating under the pressure that a few late arrivals, departures, etc, would cause 70% of the company's revenue to disappear if their one customer decided to take its business elsewhere. The feeders by and large do (or at least we do where I work). Fortunately our management is very proactive about giving us the tools to meet those requirements. Also, the UPS pilot group has the IPA to act as a buffer between management and themselves, normalizing the relationship somewhat.We have no such thing.

DHL would swap the flying over to someone else in a hurry if Atlas/Polar started dropping the ball. In fact, we had a full day of "Keep DHL Happy" training in groundschool for that very reason.

Actually, the 767 domestic stuff here is just basic feeder work. Metros and 1900s bring smaller loads over to the 767, we drive it to CVG, and that junk gets put on a Whale headed to wherever those cool kids go. The AMF guys feeding the 767 might think we're the end of the line, but it's really just another hub feed. Still very time critical.

 

[Maurus]

DHL would swap the flying over to someone else in a hurry if Atlas/Polar started dropping the ball. In fact, we had a full day of "Keep DHL Happy" training in groundschool for that very reason.

Actually, the 767 domestic stuff here is just basic feeder work. Metros and 1900s bring smaller loads over to the 767, we drive it to CVG, and that junk gets put on a Whale headed to wherever those cool kids go. The AMF guys feeding the 767 might think we're the end of the line, but it's really just another hub feed. Still very time critical.

Yup it sucks to be that way for a place that is suppose to be a career destination. Get good labor contracts and/or an expensive fleet and DHL will find their next favorite airline. That is one unfortunate thing that would make me not want to go to an ACMI carrier for any long period of time.

When your company owns the flying your career has a better chance of finishing on a good note. Obviously it isn't 100% certain you would finish at that company, but your chances increase greatly.

 

[dasleben]

Yup it sucks to be that way for a place that is suppose to be a career destination. Get good labor contracts and/or an expensive fleet and DHL will find their next favorite airline. That is one unfortunate thing that would make me not want to go to an ACMI carrier for any long period of time.

When your company owns the flying your career has a better chance of finishing on a good note. Obviously it isn't 100% certain you would finish at that company, but your chances increase greatly.

It is what it is...I think where I'm at is diversified enough beyond the DHL network, but there's always a risk. DHL isn't stupid, though; they own 49% of Polar, and have a vested interest themselves.

I'd like to say that owning the flying would be more secure, but there were a couple thousand Legacy pilots who spent over a decade on furlough at companies with razor thin profits even in the best times. Heck, it's all just a big lottery.

 

[Polar742]

My friend that was furloughed after getting hired in '99 thought it was awesome to own his flying.

He's been junior to me. Twice now.

Maurus It's a dice roll. One thing we can do is take our toys and leave too. Again, DHL is spreadsheet driven. What happened in the US, while it can happen again, was a total microcosm in the DHL world.

DHL Express is only one part of the DHL business. Also on the jets you see in CVG we sell our own capacity. We have our own route authorities. All of our Latin American capacity is sold by us.

 

[Maurus]

My friend that was furloughed after getting hired in '99 thought it was awesome to own his flying.

He's been junior to me. Twice now.

Maurus It's a dice roll. One thing we can do is take our toys and leave too. Again, DHL is spreadsheet driven. What happened in the US, while it can happen again, was a total microcosm in the DHL world.

DHL Express is only one part of the DHL business. Also on the jets you see in CVG we sell our own capacity. We have our own route authorities. All of our Latin American capacity is sold by us.

This means Atlas/Polar is in a better situation. I hope the crazy doesn't happen again.