What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio?

Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

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Agreed. I love the pilots on here who bash the 600TT DCA grad flying an RJ for Comair and say they would be scared to fly with them. Well guess what...they're jealous. Go ahead and instruct at the FBO...they'll see your 152 on the ramp from their CRJ. You'll look really cool.

Get over it. The bashers are academy drop outs or are people who have been brainwashed by this website that DCA, RAA, PanAm etc are hell holes.

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Don't know of many 600TT guys from DCA working at the regionals. 1000TT 100Multi are usually the magic numbers for leaving here.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

SmittyB sounds like another starry eyed sucker these places prey upon. RAA loves you Smitty, (RAA's ads are way worse than DCA ones by the way, there was one in the latest Flight Training that implied if you didnt train with them you wouldnt be prepared to handle an emergency when your at a regional
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Speakin of the debt issue. I'd alot rather have a ton of debt on a house than on something that depends on medicals, evil CEOs, and Osama.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

"I love the pilots on here who bash the 600TT DCA grad flying an RJ for Comair".

You don't know what you are talking about. DCA grads have 800 hours dual given, 1000 total, and I'd guess a couple hundred multi, at least, before they "graduate" the program and get the interview. That's one of the things I like about DCA...they aren't trying to put 300 hour guys into the right seat of a jet.

"The bashers are academy drop outs or are people who have been brainwashed by this website"

I don't resemble that remark...maybe I'm not really a basher...
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

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"The bashers are academy drop outs or are people who have been brainwashed by this website"

I don't resemble that remark...maybe I'm not really a basher...

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I concur. You're not really a basher. That's only a rumot.


Keep practicing, though....
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Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

"SmittyB sounds like another starry eyed sucker these places prey upon. RAA loves you Smitty"

-Actually attending Ari-Ben in the spring.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

thats a good choice. They are good people there.

Why then are you defending these places?
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

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Fact: DCA's marketing sucks and is very misleading. You cannot refute that.

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I know, it's been awhile since I have posted on here, mainly because I quite honestly got tired of every thread here turning into a marketing bashing thread. That aside, I do have to comment on this quote. If it is a fact, I would like to see the evidence. An opinion of some, or even the majority, does not establish a fact. The fact is, we have had some of the highest ever enrollment numbers recently for DCA/Comair. Are these people attending because of the marketing or because they feel the level of training they will recieve is top-notch?? I doubt it is due to the marketing, but the ads may have contributed to phone calls, visits, etc. From this viewpoint, does the marketing suck? It is all based on your perception in how you read the ads as to whether you agree or disagree. As stated before, I challenge anyone to show me a lie within the ads. I am not saying I wouldn't write them differently if I could, but I also agree with the person who said it is "pompously arrogant" for those to think that potential students aren't able to read the ads for what they are. So are DCA's ads misleading? In your mind, yes. In mine, no - they state what is available and what can be achieved. A fact that it sucks?? No.
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Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

I wouldn't say defending. It's just many of the people on here don't have first hand experience with these academies and they continue to talk sh*t.

Let's be realistic...

Are their prices outrageous? Yes. I'm going to Ari-Ben for about 32k (estimate) for flight training when its over 100k at DCA. (living costs excluded). And I'll be getting about 800ME more than the academies.

Is it good training? Yes. But the FAA isn't going to give you a certificate/rating unless you're a good pilot.

Is it a guarenteed job? No. Is anything in this business. It's just another way to go to get to the airlines.

Do these academies work? Sometimes. People on these forums all seem to have had bad experiences at them. But I'll tell you why...because it didn't work for them and they know this is a great place to get heard. How about the guys that it did work for? Oh yea....their sitting in the right seat of an RJ and they don't have time to get on here and chat it up.

Is it time effective? Yes, in most cases. Most of their graduates are hired in RJs not B1900s (eventhough the B19 is my favorite aircraft of alltime).

Some airlines prefer the rigourous training enviornment DCA, RAA provide...some don't. The fact of the matter is it is a matter of opinion. They're marketing tactics can be fishy sometimes. But who are we to say they're incorrect? No one here works internally at these academies so the specualation is just obsurd.

Do I support the academies? I don't know. They provide flight training to aviation enthusiasts. So as far it goes, they're benefiting the hobby/career of/in aviation. As well as putting some cash in their pockets.

There are more cost effective routes to the airlines. But to say that a 700TT RJ pilot for XJT is "uncapable" of flying that a/c....that's just ignorance. Like I said they're flying a big boy when the FBO guys are in their 172.

Let's just support all flight training centers and not talk junk when not a lot of people here have even been to these places.

Like I said...there are always two sides to the story. Do I have first hand experience? No. I'm just giving you another possible point of view. Not everyone out there hates these academies. But the ones that have, have seemed to find this forum.
 
Foxtofly

Great. We finally have a DCA advertising expert here to tell us what the ads mean.

"Being a subsidiary of Delta, we are now the ONLY accelerated flight training facility serving the entire Delta Connection System."

What exactly is "serving the entire Delta Connection System"? What DCA wants you to hear is "we are the only flight training facility that can get you hired at Delta Connection". Which, of course, is totally untrue.

"Let's face it, being owned by Delta means more opportunity for you."

And how is that? More opportunity for what? Non-reving around the Delta system? Delta got a 32% wage cut from their pilot group and may still declare bankruptcy. How will being "owned by Delta" be such a great thing when the DL furloughees get preferential hiring at the WO's such as Comair and ASA?

"The Academy is a subsidiary of Delta Airlines. As a result, no other Flight School can offer you a more direct career path. "

What they want you to hear is "because we are owned by Delta, we offer the easiest track to becoming an airline pilot".

Delta has nothing to do with it. An attempt to use a "big name" to suck you in. MAPD is a more direct track than DCA (not that I like MAPD, gawd forbid).

Delta is a big name often used in DCA marketing. What influence does Delta really have with DCA? What influnence does DCA have on Delta? I'm gonna say none and none....

Sure sounds cool in an ad though...doesn't it.
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

"Do I have first hand experience? No"

With DCA....neither do I. I think it's wrong to discount those who come here with negative first hand experiences, though. Some here blow off all negative posts as being from losers who can't hack it.

"But to say that a 700TT RJ pilot for XJT is "uncapable" of flying that a/c....that's just ignorance"

uncapable (incapable)....I won't say. Much less than ideal and less than I'd like to see in the seat. Yes.

Just a personal opinion from a somones who's been flying turbine equipment since 1988 and who is currently a 757/767 pilot. You can say I'm ignorant until you're blue in the face but I'd love to be around if you ever make it to the left seat of a jet....we'll see what kind of experience you'd like to see out of your F/O's then.
 
Re: Foxtofly

Did I claim to be a marketing expert for DCA 727? Nope. Sounds to me that by you saying "What they want you to hear..." you are the one claiming to be an expert. With all your expertise and knowledge of the school, I am sure glad that you told us what DCA wants us to hear. Also so glad that you are making an informed decision about the school based solely on the marketing. Guess the level of training means nothing anymore, only that these schools pass your test on what is acceptable advertising. IMO, you just greatly discounted anything I ever thought to be decent advice from you by making a personal attack. I simply quoted what someone else had said was a "fact", showed that it couldn't be considered a "fact". And it still isn't. No one can prove the ads wrong. All you do is state your perception of what they mean and be so arrogant to think that it is how everyone interprets the ads. Get over it. But... thanks again for telling us all what they want us to hear in the ads.
 
Re: Foxtofly

For anyone here, I'm curious. What exactly is the relationship between DCA and Delta, in regards to how the Delta name is used in the marketing ads?
 
Re: What is the Enrollment vs actually Hired ratio

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Are their prices outrageous? Yes. I'm going to Ari-Ben for about 32k (estimate) for flight training when its over 100k at DCA. (living costs excluded).

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not sure where you got that number, but living costs INCLUDED for me and training costs were quite a ways under $100K. I spent about $85K and that included all living costs and over $10K that I used on a downpayment on a townhouse. That makes my total for training somewhere around $70K I would say. And truthfully, I was on the higher side as far as hours go...

This is not to say DCA is cheap. It isn't and I don't think they have ever claimed to be. There are certainly many cheaper routes to go. But that $100K figure is way out of line for even most of the real high time guys...
 
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Just wanted to get an answer on that one since it was dodged in the last thread.

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According to this, about 6%:

Here is DCA’s own written word in the magazine ads and website :
"Even in today’s job market, 97% of our graduates are hired as First Officers!*"

The asterisk * small print at the bottom of ads reads:
“* 728 out of 754 students who completed the entire program through August 2003”. Wow, that is fantastic, don’t you know? DCA has been in business since 1987, which is 16 years. If you divide 728 by that 16 years you only get 45.5 students per year, or 3 students per month on average, that graduate. This means less than 6% of their students make it as First Officers."

It was posted on this DCA thread:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26460
 
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Just wanted to get an answer on that one since it was dodged in the last thread.

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According to this, about 6%:

Here is DCA’s own written word in the magazine ads and website :
"Even in today’s job market, 97% of our graduates are hired as First Officers!*"

The asterisk * small print at the bottom of ads reads:
“* 728 out of 754 students who completed the entire program through August 2003”. Wow, that is fantastic, don’t you know? DCA has been in business since 1987, which is 16 years. If you divide 728 by that 16 years you only get 45.5 students per year, or 3 students per month on average, that graduate. This means less than 6% of their students make it as First Officers."

It was posted on this DCA thread:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26460

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Great! Now you are assuming that those numbers reflect all instructors hired since the school started... so let's start from that premise. Where did you get the 6% figure? Against the current instructor to student ratio? How do you know this ratio was always the same? The truth is that this year alone more than 100 of our instructors got hired to fly a jet. We hired more than 10 instructors last month and this weekend a new Standz Class starts. I agree that the numbers are not as promising as the ad might lead to believe. But it is not as grim as your post states. I know that because I have direct experience with it. I see our guys being "released" for their interview and getting hired... In that aspect anyone of those guys will tell you that they got what they were promised.

Check www.deltaconnectionacademy.com and look into the names of the instructors that were hired and, most importantly, which company they are flying for...
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Re: Foxtofly

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For anyone here, I'm curious. What exactly is the relationship between DCA and Delta, in regards to how the Delta name is used in the marketing ads?

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Hey Mike,

Delta bought COMAIR, which owned COMAIR Aviation Academy. So Delta pretty much owns the school now. Sometimes some higher ups from Delta come down to check on things...So I guess that gives the school the right ot use the Delta Logo and name.

The school is probably one of the smallest subsidiaries Delta has....

So it seems that this relationship makes some of you "unconfortable" .... why is that ? This question about DCA na Delta keeps popping up... Why is it such a big deal?
 
Re: Foxtofly

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For anyone here, I'm curious. What exactly is the relationship between DCA and Delta, in regards to how the Delta name is used in the marketing ads?

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Hey Mike,

Delta bought COMAIR, which owned COMAIR Aviation Academy. So Delta pretty much owns the school now. Sometimes some higher ups from Delta come down to check on things...So I guess that gives the school the right ot use the Delta Logo and name.

The school is probably one of the smallest subsidiaries Delta has....

So it seems that this relationship makes some of you "unconfortable" .... why is that ? This question about DCA na Delta keeps popping up... Why is it such a big deal?

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Nothing that makes me uncomfortable, I was simply asking a question about something I was unclear about.....I've wondered exactly what the relationship was til now, and figured I'd ask. Thanks for clearing it up.
 
Re: Foxtofly

"IMO, you just greatly discounted anything I ever thought to be decent advice from you by making a personal attack"

Well...I'm just heartbroken....

You wanna take a stab at answering the questions I asked?
 
Re: Foxtofly

"So it seems that this relationship makes some of you "unconfortable" .... why is that ?"

What makes me uncomfortable is DCA uses their "relationship" with Delta as a selling point and a reason why they are a superior school. I don't think Delta owning DCA has any impact on SQUAT about DCA being a good school or not. Yet it's huge in their marketing. In what ways does Delta owning DCA effect training at DCA? Besides ID90's.

Saying it's just marketing fluff and doesn't mean anything and that I should just shut up about the whole marketing thing is a perfectly acceptable answer.
 
Re: Foxtofly

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"Being a subsidiary of Delta, we are now the ONLY accelerated flight training facility serving the entire Delta Connection System."

What exactly is "serving the entire Delta Connection System"? What DCA wants you to hear is "we are the only flight training facility that can get you hired at Delta Connection". Which, of course, is totally untrue.

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It is that we are the only school with a contract with all the Delta Connection carriers, not just one of them. The way you state it, yes it would be untrue. Don't be so closed-minded to only think one way or to be arrogant enough to think you know what it is "they" want "us" to hear. If we are reading this, we obviously know how to read, thanks for your concern though. <sarcasm>


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"Let's face it, being owned by Delta means more opportunity for you."

And how is that? More opportunity for what? Non-reving around the Delta system? Delta got a 32% wage cut from their pilot group and may still declare bankruptcy. How will being "owned by Delta" be such a great thing when the DL furloughees get preferential hiring at the WO's such as Comair and ASA?

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Read the above. As far as non-reving as an instructor, who else offers those kind of flight benefits? As far as the pay cuts, furloughs, etc. where was it ever mentioned that we would be going to Delta? We go to the regionals first in case you don't know, and the Delta regionals are doing pretty well and hiring. It will be a great thing when the furloughs get hired and move back out of regionals (those that are there) and open up some room for advancing the seniority ladder within the regional level.

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"The Academy is a subsidiary of Delta Airlines. As a result, no other Flight School can offer you a more direct career path. "

What they want you to hear is "because we are owned by Delta, we offer the easiest track to becoming an airline pilot".

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No question there to answer, only you trying to tell all of us how to read the ads... thanks. <sarcasm again>

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Delta is a big name often used in DCA marketing. What influence does Delta really have with DCA? What influnence does DCA have on Delta? I'm gonna say none and none....

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I don't know, maybe you could ask the Delta execs when they come down here. Ohhhh, that's right, you won't come here and see what the school is about. Let's decide merely on an ad instead. As I recall, Wannabe made a post not long ago with a list of ads that stated things like "we are the best" but you skimmed over that pretty fast. Keep bashing something you don't know though. Is that what experience has taught you?

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Sure sounds cool in an ad though...doesn't it.

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No... ads are not supposed to catch you eye, which apparently this one failed because you can't stop talking about it, even when other issues are at hand. <once again, in case you haven't figured it out yet, sarcasm>

As far as you being heart-broken UPS, I won't loose any sleep about it, don't worry. Just shows the kind of person you are that you will resort to personal attacks. How much experience do you have? And that makes you how old? Apparently your being in a turbine since 1988 and being in a 757/767 means more to you than others. Can't decide now if you are being arrogant or ignorant.... hummm.
 
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