What IDIOTS (Two Falcon Air Pilots Scab for Spirit)
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
scooter2525
Very well Member
Re: What IDIOTS
An app like goodreader would allow you to upload a searchable doc (PDF, doc, etc). Extra tap to open app and open file, but if you had multiple scab lists, a good way to go through them. Fwiw.
An app like goodreader would allow you to upload a searchable doc (PDF, doc, etc). Extra tap to open app and open file, but if you had multiple scab lists, a good way to go through them. Fwiw.
1B9Pilot
Well-Known Member
Re: What IDIOTS
Spirit Wings 2099 cleared to land
ATC: We'll we didn't remember
NKS: Yeah us neither.
Wow. fail on the pilot's part.
LOL 1:35 in.
Spirit Wings 2099 cleared to land
ATC: We'll we didn't remember
NKS: Yeah us neither.
Wow. fail on the pilot's part.
Fins Up
Well-Known Member
Old Pete
Cockpit Authoritarian
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Re: What IDIOTS
I forget- been forever since I read 'Hard Landing'. I should read it again.
Anyhow.. I was suggesting that said individual who might've been over retirement age was possibly still working as an individual. I've done no hard research on that specific point- just playing Devil's Advocate.
The engineer/pilot thing went back and forth for a while- I forget when it was resolved in favor of pilots 'riding sideways'.
I forget- been forever since I read 'Hard Landing'. I should read it again.
Anyhow.. I was suggesting that said individual who might've been over retirement age was possibly still working as an individual. I've done no hard research on that specific point- just playing Devil's Advocate.
The engineer/pilot thing went back and forth for a while- I forget when it was resolved in favor of pilots 'riding sideways'.
WacoFan
Bigly
Re: What IDIOTS
Albury was 69 when the EAL strike started in 1989. He was clearly not a line pilot (unless he was an FE). If he retired from line flying at age 60, and went to work in the training center as an employee of the company training pilots in sims, I see no difference than the office girl, janitor, or mechanic in many ways. He could have done PT91 flights I guess which would have made him a scab, but if he was simply training it doesn't seem like he should be on the list. Perhaps it means if you are a former pilot, or if you ever where a member of ALPA, or something like that. I'm not sure - seems to contradict what ATN said though, because at 69 you are not working as a pilot at a 121 carrier (unless you are an FE). Be interesting to hear the whole story on this guy.
Albury was 69 when the EAL strike started in 1989. He was clearly not a line pilot (unless he was an FE). If he retired from line flying at age 60, and went to work in the training center as an employee of the company training pilots in sims, I see no difference than the office girl, janitor, or mechanic in many ways. He could have done PT91 flights I guess which would have made him a scab, but if he was simply training it doesn't seem like he should be on the list. Perhaps it means if you are a former pilot, or if you ever where a member of ALPA, or something like that. I'm not sure - seems to contradict what ATN said though, because at 69 you are not working as a pilot at a 121 carrier (unless you are an FE). Be interesting to hear the whole story on this guy.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Re: What IDIOTS
Working in the training department during a strike, or even helping to recruit scabs, is still scabbing, and yes, it will get you on the list.
Working in the training department during a strike, or even helping to recruit scabs, is still scabbing, and yes, it will get you on the list.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Re: What IDIOTS
Can you expand on what exactly gets you on the Scab list?
There's obviously flying the work being struck.. or being hired thereafter, etc.. but the ancillary things. Part 91.. maintenance repos... etc.. what counts, what doesn't?
Can you expand on what exactly gets you on the Scab list?
There's obviously flying the work being struck.. or being hired thereafter, etc.. but the ancillary things. Part 91.. maintenance repos... etc.. what counts, what doesn't?
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Re: What IDIOTS
Yup.
If you're a line qualified pilot, working in the training department, working to train pilots who have crossed the line. . .
You're a scab. Just cause you're not in the cockpit flying a revenue flight doesn't really matter.
1) You're a line pilot
2) Working in the training department
3) Doing work that benefits the company
thus
Eroding the negotiating capital given to a labor group during a strike.
(this may not be the "standard definition" but rather more of an analysis of the negative implications by being a line pilot who works in the training department doing work that benefits the company and negatively impacts the labor groups bargaining power - thus crossing a line and violating a strike - becoming a scab)
Yup.
If you're a line qualified pilot, working in the training department, working to train pilots who have crossed the line. . .
You're a scab. Just cause you're not in the cockpit flying a revenue flight doesn't really matter.
1) You're a line pilot
2) Working in the training department
3) Doing work that benefits the company
thus
Eroding the negotiating capital given to a labor group during a strike.
(this may not be the "standard definition" but rather more of an analysis of the negative implications by being a line pilot who works in the training department doing work that benefits the company and negatively impacts the labor groups bargaining power - thus crossing a line and violating a strike - becoming a scab)
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
All of those things would usually qualify. In reality, each MEC sets its own struck work definition, so in theory, an MEC could decide not to include them. Generally, though, if you're a pilot, and you do any work whatsoever for the company that is being struck, then you're a scab.
If you have a contract that includes cancellation pay, or at least a minimum guarantee, then the company has to either pay you or furlough you. The company could furlough everyone, but then they would have to go through the process of recalling everyone, which is usually a long drawn out process laid out in the CBA that takes 30+ days.
WacoFan
Bigly
Re: What IDIOTS
That's the thing though...at 69 how could he have been "line qualified"? If Spirit sent their pilots to third party for sim training, etc...would the instructors at that company that was training SCABS for Spirit be scabs?
Seriously, not trying to bust balls here at all, this is a chance to define "Scab" behavior for all - and with the dillution of the word that we have seen over the years this is a good opportunity to define what is "scabbing" and what is not.
That's the thing though...at 69 how could he have been "line qualified"? If Spirit sent their pilots to third party for sim training, etc...would the instructors at that company that was training SCABS for Spirit be scabs?
Seriously, not trying to bust balls here at all, this is a chance to define "Scab" behavior for all - and with the dillution of the word that we have seen over the years this is a good opportunity to define what is "scabbing" and what is not.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Re: What IDIOTS
I guess the difference between what you're doing and what I'm saying Waco is actually quite simple and clear.
I'm talking about today and the future, and my own personal standards and analysis of what I consider a SCAB in the 121 Professional pilot segment of the aviation industry.
You, it appears, are trying to say that I'm challenging the line qualified recognition of a 69 year old training department employee. . .I don't care about him.
Nor do I care about any SPECIFIC case from the past that you may come up with.
Just stop at the first sentence I wrote and that should provide more than enough clarity to understand what I was trying to say.
Also not trying to bust balls here, but I'm not really going to get dragged into a debate about some has been 69 year old bomber co-pilot.
I guess the difference between what you're doing and what I'm saying Waco is actually quite simple and clear.
I'm talking about today and the future, and my own personal standards and analysis of what I consider a SCAB in the 121 Professional pilot segment of the aviation industry.
You, it appears, are trying to say that I'm challenging the line qualified recognition of a 69 year old training department employee. . .I don't care about him.
Nor do I care about any SPECIFIC case from the past that you may come up with.
Just stop at the first sentence I wrote and that should provide more than enough clarity to understand what I was trying to say.
Also not trying to bust balls here, but I'm not really going to get dragged into a debate about some has been 69 year old bomber co-pilot.
WacoFan
Bigly
I_Money
Moderator
Re: What IDIOTS
Although I dislike people crossing the picket line, I think the behaviour, threats and violence from the striking workers is far worse. With those tactics and no one denouncing them I have no sympathy for the struck workers and really do not care about their well being -
Although I dislike people crossing the picket line, I think the behaviour, threats and violence from the striking workers is far worse. With those tactics and no one denouncing them I have no sympathy for the struck workers and really do not care about their well being -
jhugz
Well-Known Member
Re: What IDIOTS
Don't screw w/ someone's livelihood. I think they deserve all the harassment they are getting.
Don't screw w/ someone's livelihood. I think they deserve all the harassment they are getting.
Nick
Well-Known Member
Would you agree though, that some degree of outcry to the scabs is necessary in order to deter more from flying struck work?