Watch Your Money Fly

[FatBastard]

Oh Fabio, offended are we? You sound upset, and why are you trying to find out who I am?
Oh by the way, who told you DCA was an airline? Ha,ha,ha.

I agree with Mr. Nixon. There are more important things in life than bantering with you.
You are funny though, and seeing you lose your cool is well,

So Fabio, you gonna make me an offer I can't refuse?

 

[tomahawk1]

[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind that when a school starts having problems, Key Bank will pull out and not allow any new student loans for flight training. This is probably a result of the former ATA (Airline Training Academy) closing and loss of student's money's. Tab Express was the latest example and probably closed because Key Bank pulled the plug. The Tab students were not hired as promised by management, and therefore could not pay back the loan. If rumors persist and Key Bank gets nervious, watch your money. DCA is no exception reguardless of who they align with. I find it rather interesting that they advertise openings for CFI's when they claim to issue more pilot certificates each year than any other flight school. Does this mean that their CFI program is lacking and can't supply sufficient CFI's for their own school?

[/ QUOTE ]


Dude... Call Key bank and get the story straight from them before you go and shoot your mouth off!!!
Key Bank is no longer funding school that are not elidgable to issue Title 4 funding from the US government. Itis like an issurance policy for Key Bank to issue loans to these types of shools that have government approval. DCA is accredited for this type of funding. Which means they are not losing the Key Loan!!

 

[planediveguy]

You should get your facts straight. I was upset with you including Vic's name into this mess.

My curiosity on finding out who you are is just to know in which category you really fit in, by consulting your flight records. The flying eval was just an excuse to get more flight time!

You are right to say that DCA is not an airline.... but, well if you are not smart enough to figure it out the implications for yourself... no "Mafia" B.S. Please...think about it for a moment.

 

[FatBastard]

[ QUOTE ]
You should get your facts straight. I was upset with you including Vic's name into this mess.

My curiosity on finding out who you are is just to know in which category you really fit in, by consulting your flight records. The flying eval was just an excuse to get more flight time!

You are right to say that DCA is not an airline.... but, well if you are not smart enough to figure it out the implications for yourself... no "Mafia" B.S. Please...think about it for a moment.

[/ QUOTE ]
(In my Marlon Brando voice) Fabio, The Father is unhappy. You were the one that implied Falcons' training as compared to DCA was inferior, When I see this, the Father doesn't like this, capish?
You also implied other things about Vics' school also which was not Italian (or Kosher).
Now you,you wanna turn your back on the Father?
I'm very hurt, Don Fabio, very hurt. I helped, you, feed you, bought you to this country, and this is how you repay me by flipping the script? accusing me of smearing Vics' name when you smeared his flight school? The Father complimented Vic- you did something else.

Listen to the Father Don Fabio, I gonna make you an offer you can't refuse............................

 

[FatBastard]

Everyone, this thread dealt with protecting your money and if you felt "shafted" by DCA, and 3 possible ways to remedy it.
With Deltas' financial situation growing more precarious daily, it would behoove all of you still attending DCA to put your money into a protected account, for your own good.

If you listen to one thing, at least listen to this, or you may be doing this-

 

[MuscleShirt]

I will be the first to say that people pay A LOT of money to train at DCA. For the same amount I was able to get all my ratings and a 4 year degree. Now, I sat down after graduating and calculated that the cost (approx. 80,000 big ones) included my housing, food, fraternity dues, fun money, and all the tuition/flight fees. The problem is, after graduating there was a tremendous slump in the industry(9-11), and it was difficult finding a job with such low time.

So, maybe someone who took the whole key loan can help me with this.
From what I have seen and heard, don't people use that loan for housing, food, fun-money, and tuition/flight fees?
Don't they get through all of this in 1 year instead of 4(minus the 4 year degree, of course)?
I know it is an insane amount of money, but I'm pretty sure that I have seen a few "new cars" around the parking lot shortly after enrollements.
I am not trying to defend what the school charges, they did not send me here to type this. But, I have seen financial irresponsibility bite a few students pretty damn hard here.

So, if anyone can help educate me on the above, I welcome it...

 

[MuscleShirt]

luv,

Bashing Fabio?
C'mon MAN!!!!!!!!! What is wrong with you? That's like kicking Santa Claus in the nuts!

Calling him "worthless", WOW!!! I don't know what to say to that...In fact, I should refrain for fear of saying something I may regret!

By the way LUV, "being in the right place at the right time" is how this industry works in case you haven't noticed. Whether it's a family/friend connection, making buddies with a corporate CEO who invites you to come fly right seat in his Falcon-50, or being on the right side of the "ever-churning" cycle of airline employment. It's all about timing...

However, in Fabio's case, he was the perfect man for the job and he sacrificed an entire YEAR here in order to serve the students and instructors he worked with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MAN!!!! I can't believe I'm having to defend FABIOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[luv2av8]

mullet, he didnt sacrifice jack! He is right where he would be if not farther ahead. And without dealing with half the crap the rest of us do. The man is as nice as can be, but is hardly a utility...I see it daily.

Fab I doubt you know who I am, but if so , by all means, say hi when you walk by me.

As for the right place at the right time...That is always how the industry has operated, but wasnt this academy supposed to alleviate that issue? Wasnt this just a way to buy yourself into knowing someone? "Pay 100k and get to know our connections"...and we'll teach you how to fly too...

 

[MuscleShirt]

[ QUOTE ]
mullet, he didnt sacrifice jack! He is right where he would be if not farther ahead. And without dealing with half the crap the rest of us do. The man is as nice as can be, but is hardly a utility...I see it daily.

Fab I doubt you know who I am, but if so , by all means, say hi when you walk by me.

As for the right place at the right time...That is always how the industry has operated, but wasnt this academy supposed to alleviate that issue? Wasnt this just a way to buy yourself into knowing someone? "Pay 100k and get to know our connections"...and we'll teach you how to fly too...

[/ QUOTE ]

In case you didn't realize it, being a Group Leader means giving up a great deal of flight time, and Fabio acted as a Leader much longer than the norm. Had Fabio not become a Leader he would most likely be in the right seat of an RJ by now.

Hardly a utility?...I'm not going to respond to that! But I'm confused by what you meant when you said he didn't have to put up with as much crap as you. Do you realize how much CRAP a group leader has to deal with? Not to mention the fact that it is a totally thankless job, that point being made by your comments above.

No flight school could ever alleviate the issue of airline hiring cycles, and if you believed that DCA would, than you didn't research the industry well enough.

 

[planediveguy]

[ QUOTE ]


Fab I doubt you know who I am, but if so , by all means, say hi when you walk by me.



[/ QUOTE ]

Dude you have a pretty bad poker face. People have asked me who you are and I don't think you desreve any retaliation, just because you whine here at this forum. It is easy to be a "Tough Guy" hiding behind your keyboard, I have nothing to hide. And as far as you not thinking that I am productive, oh well, WHAAA, WHAA Fabio doesn't help me with my job! Whaaaaaa, I have to do paperwork! Whaaaaaa I have to deal with students! Whaaaa, I have to attend meetings ( by the way how was yours today?) Whaaaaaaaaa, I have to do groundwork with my students! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

See ya tomorrow!

 

[planediveguy]

Grow up dude.

 

[ERJ-135]

Since you are paid by the flight hour, if you are required to attend mandatory meetings, then you are due moneys equal to your normal hourly pay.

 

[luv2av8]

My oppinion stands

Mullet? What the hell does airline hiring cycles have to do with anything? That is nothing more than economic variables and industry growth, it has nothing to do with connections or being anywhere at the right time. If it were as simple as a hiring cycle why would ANYONE pay 100k to attend a flight academy...dude, I didn’t think you were as ignorant as that. DCA is nothing more than paying for a job for christ sake! The training is NOTHING spectacular here, with the piss poor aircraft that break every other flight, the PCATS that are replaced almost monthly, and the FTDs that use 10 year old software. Oh and the bridge FTD that cost more than an aircraft to rent but has cardboard panels...

As for the flight time as a group leader, thats a load of BS!! group leader flights are a dime a dozen in the instrument group where he worked for so long! People were spending 8 mos in that group with 120-150 hours flight time, Fab how much time did you log this last year? 120hrs is 8mos? HAH. This goes to show you prospective students that you will instruct here much longer than 1 year. I have a friend that has been here 2 years and logged 350 dual given. He has a 100% end of course and FAA, so dont try to tell me he is one of the black sheep that is blackballed from students!

 

[FO_SHIZZLE]

[ QUOTE ]
Mullet? What the hell does airline hiring cycles have to do with anything? That is nothing more than economic variables and industry growth, it has nothing to do with connections or being anywhere at the right time. If it were as simple as a hiring cycle why would ANYONE pay 100k to attend a flight academy...dude, I didn’t think you were as ignorant as that. DCA is nothing more than paying for a job for christ sake! The training is NOTHING spectacular here, with the piss poor aircraft that break every other flight, the PCATS that are replaced almost monthly, and the FTDs that use 10 year old software. Oh and the bridge FTD that cost more than an aircraft to rent but has cardboard panels...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hiring cycles have everything to do with it. Most people that have been in the industry for awhile will tell you that it all goes in cycles and whether you get hired, furloughed or stay working, it is all dependent on if you were picked up on the front of a cycle or on the bottom of one. Alot of people pay because they don't know what tomorrow will bring in this industry. If you think they are going to be hiring alot in 6months because they are now, then you are pretty foolish. BTW, nobody pays for a job here. Most you're going to get for sure is an interview. But now you're saying DCA is PFJ? Perhaps you don't understand the definition of that term. At DCA you pay for ratings just like anywhere else. How does that now become PFJ? Because you get an interview?

The bridge sim that you get for free? Yeah, free sure is expensive, how will you ever pay for that. The 100k is what alot of people spend but it's not on training. It's hard for people to have that kind of cash available to them and not spend it, myself included. I spent my loan money like it was going out of style, but I didn't go around saying I spent 100k on training. I usually say I spent 100k on training, a motorcycle, a car, and extravagant living. If someone spent 100k on training I think they are having a fair amount of difficulties.

You're telling me you know someone that has been instructing at DCA for 2 years and has 350 hours? Right buddy. I've been here for a year and a half and that included two vacations a couple PTO's here and there and I mostly took all my days off. I certainly know of no one that has been here longer than I have and has 450 less hours than I do. You're "friend" either took some serious time off, or you are being a little dramatic again, and are not giving out the whole truth. I think the school says it will take 12-18months of instruction to get your hours. But if you take alot of time off or call in "sick" alot, it will obviously take longer.

As far as equipment goes, I think the FTD's are only 5yrs old at the most but you say the software is 10yr? Okey...

If you think these aircraft are so bad, then you have not been out in to the real world at many FBO's. They may not be as nice as those at other big academies but those are few. If something breaks at an FBO, most are not that eager to fix it.

Once again, if you are that miserable, then you should go somewhere else. You wanted a flight job because you wanted to enjoy your job right? So if the grass is so greener, go make yourself happy. Instruction is a tough job and is not the best working conditions, it's still going to be a tough, yet rewarding, job no matter where you go. If it was that great, people wouldn't leave the field in droves to sit on reserve for a year at an airline.

 

[MuscleShirt]

[ QUOTE ]
Since you are paid by the flight hour, if you are required to attend mandatory meetings, then you are due moneys equal to your normal hourly pay.

[/ QUOTE ]

We are compensated for meetings....

 

[MuscleShirt]

[ QUOTE ]
My oppinion stands

Mullet? What the hell does airline hiring cycles have to do with anything? That is nothing more than economic variables and industry growth, it has nothing to do with connections or being anywhere at the right time. If it were as simple as a hiring cycle why would ANYONE pay 100k to attend a flight academy...dude, I didn’t think you were as ignorant as that. DCA is nothing more than paying for a job for christ sake! The training is NOTHING spectacular here, with the piss poor aircraft that break every other flight, the PCATS that are replaced almost monthly, and the FTDs that use 10 year old software. Oh and the bridge FTD that cost more than an aircraft to rent but has cardboard panels...

[/ QUOTE ]


Do you really think an airline like ASA would be hiring pilots with less than 600 hours if this were July of 2002...? I think not. Do you think it would have been easy to find an airline job in the 80's...? with "Deregulation" still lingering, and the bloated influx of retired military pilots? It's all about the cycle and we are extremely fortunate that we are at the beginning of a new one!

I have to ask if you've ever flown anywhere else? Did you train anywhere else? I have...and planes/FTD's are breaking all the time, everywhere. It's a fact of aviation that sh*# will break. I'm not defending the condition of the aircraft by any means, but you would run into the same issues no matter where you fly!

 

[FatBastard]

Just to let everyone know, X-Jet has once again lowered thier mins. It was 600/100 now unofficially 400/100 with a college degree, and you just saved $11,000.00 for this one.
ASA has also lowered thier mins to 600/100. Check thier website. So if any DCA guys have close to these numbers, come on over to Falcon, buy a block of multi time and GIT R DONE!

Checked with Key to settle the debate. Key is still doing loans to DCA, however Key gives the money directly to you, for you to protect. If Delta Connection Academy tells you they want the whole amount in their account you are not being dealt with truthfully. I would suggest a pay as you go.

Are you an A.O.P.A. member? if so please read the article -"Foreign Student Ripoff- Where did all the money go?" by Alton K. Marsh, published in the AOPA Pilot magazine, July 1997.
Also if you are an AOPA member, and have the legal services plan, you can call them for assistance with any and all issues you may have with your training. Also, if DCA pushes something your way for you to sign and it doesn't look right, or tries to make it appear you are the reason for your training troubles, don't sign it until you have talked with competent legal counsel, and if they say, you can't advance here until you sign this, take your money and run- over to falcon -of course.

I also asked Key about the falling out between them and DCA, the representative refused comment on that and said "WE GIVE THAT MONEY TO YOU FOR YOU TO PROTECT, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT IT."

Anyway, thats' all for now more info shortly.

Everyone, take care.(In my Marlon Brando voice) You too Fabio, you gonna take my offer you can't refuse? The Father, has spoken.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

[ QUOTE ]
Just to let everyone know, X-Jet has once again lowered thier mins. It was 600/100 now unofficially 400/100 with a college degree, and you just saved $11,000.00 for this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that I am not yet close, but can someone confirm this? Not that I don't believe another JC'er, but its always good to check sources.....

Thanks in Advance.

 

[FatBastard]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just to let everyone know, X-Jet has once again lowered thier mins. It was 600/100 now unofficially 400/100 with a college degree, and you just saved $11,000.00 for this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that I am not yet close, but can someone confirm this? Not that I don't believe another JC'er, but its always good to check sources.....

Thanks in Advance.

[/ QUOTE ]

We had a guy come in to Falcon who is currently on his Standz break from DCA, they told him he needed at least 400 hours, a college degree and 100 multi time. He brought a block of multi since the recruiter told him he needs that for thier insurance mins. If you have further questions, why not give X-Jet a call, don't know if they will admit that or not, but it never hurts to ask.

I say GO FOR IT !!

 

[FatBastard]

If anyone has dealt with X-Jet, let us know how it turned out.