Walp...

DPApilot said:
They did a few months ago, but it may have changed...
Click to expand...
I'm not into regulation much anymore but my company had a chance to offer a SIC type on my jet transport via the old rules and the FSDO let them know that wasn't happening anymore. National fed echoed the same when he did my new type.

However, that was a western region US, maybe other areas do other things?
 
jynxyjoe said:
I'm not into regulation much anymore but my company had a chance to offer a SIC type on my jet transport via the old rules and the FSDO let them know that wasn't happening anymore. National fed echoed the same when he did my new type.

However, that was a western region US, maybe other areas do other things?
Click to expand...
FSDOs do what they want to.
 
Well the first hour and a half of the interview went well, the last half hour not so much. When the conversation turned to the contract/bennies/money we basically just didn't see eye to eye. The CP was not against me going to get my PIC instead of my SIC type but he said he would have to see how I did and if he felt comfortable sending me. But he would not tell me what exactly that means or when that may be. I wanted to go to training and was willing to sign a 1 year contract immediately upon completion of my "probationary period" but then he told me he would want me to wait at least 6 months to a year before doing that. So I said, "so basically I could be on probation for up to a year"? To which he said I didn't understand what he was saying and explained it again. So I said, "no, I understand what your saying, but if your going to wait up to a year to send me to training and sign a contract, then I'm basically on probation for that whole time because I could be let go at any time for any reason and I wouldn't have anything to show for it". At this point I was becoming very skeptical of this whole thing but we moved on... Next we talked about pay/contract. I told him I would feel comfortable with signing a 1 year pro-rated contract for 35K on completion of my PIC type. He told me they were absolutely not willing to budge on the 2 year pro-rated contract but that second year pay would go up to 45K. I told him to sign a 2 year contract that I would need a good bit more money than that. He didn't like that answer at all and proceeded to compare their pay with first year regional pay etc... So I asked, "well what kind of health insurance and retirement are you offering"? The answer: NONE. So I basically told him that for a job that he was trying to tell me was a career job, it seemed strange for it not to come with industry standard health and retirement benefits. He said no one had ever said that before. It basically ended right around there and he did say that he had to talk to the owner and that he would call me tonight or tomorrow and let me know. But I'm not holding my breath. Right before I left he did say that there was a day trip down to PBI and back on Monday and asked me how much I wanted to fly right seat. I told him $300 and he scoffed. I think you get the picture from here. Substandard contract, no hard time off (yes that's right, he told me they are paying me to be on call basically 24/7. In fact, when I specifically asked about hard days off, he said, "you must think this is an airline interview or something"), and he said I wasn't allowed to drink at all on layovers (seriously). Not that I'm even a big drinker but if I'm not flying the next day I might like to have a beer with my dinner. WELCOME TO FLORIDA! We are a swamp surrounded by water that doubles as an aviation career graveyard. The search for a good job continues!
 
chrisreedrules said:
Well the first hour and a half of the interview went well, the last half hour not so much. When the conversation turned to the contract/bennies/money we basically just didn't see eye to eye. The CP was not against me going to get my PIC instead of my SIC type but he said he would have to see how I did and if he felt comfortable sending me. But he would not tell me what exactly that means or when that may be. I wanted to go to training and was willing to sign a 1 year contract immediately upon completion of my "probationary period" but then he told me he would want me to wait at least 6 months to a year before doing that. So I said, "so basically I could be on probation for up to a year"? To which he said I didn't understand what he was saying and explained it again. So I said, "no, I understand what your saying, but if your going to wait up to a year to send me to training and sign a contract, then I'm basically on probation for that whole time because I could be let go at any time for any reason and I wouldn't have anything to show for it". At this point I was becoming very skeptical of this whole thing but we moved on... Next we talked about pay/contract. I told him I would feel comfortable with signing a 1 year pro-rated contract for 35K on completion of my PIC type. He told me they were absolutely not willing to budge on the 2 year pro-rated contract but that second year pay would go up to 45K. I told him to sign a 2 year contract that I would need a good bit more money than that. He didn't like that answer at all and proceeded to compare their pay with first year regional pay etc... So I asked, "well what kind of health insurance and retirement are you offering"? The answer: NONE. So I basically told him that for a job that he was trying to tell me was a career job, it seemed strange for it not to come with industry standard health and retirement benefits. He said no one had ever said that before. It basically ended right around there and he did say that he had to talk to the owner and that he would call me tonight or tomorrow and let me know. But I'm not holding my breath. Right before I left he did say that there was a day trip down to PBI and back on Monday and asked me how much I wanted to fly right seat. I told him $300 and he scoffed. I think you get the picture from here. Substandard contract, no hard time off (yes that's right, he told me they are paying me to be on call basically 24/7. In fact, when I specifically asked about hard days off, he said, "you must think this is an airline interview or something"), and he said I wasn't allowed to drink at all on layovers (seriously). Not that I'm even a big drinker but if I'm not flying the next day I might like to have a beer with my dinner. WELCOME TO FLORIDA! We are a swamp surrounded by water that doubles as an aviation career graveyard. The search for a good job continues!
Click to expand...

Wow, I can't stand owners that think like this, but I guess that comes with the territory. What's worse is a CP that thinks along these lines, he needs a swift kick to the nuts.

Anyway, I would run not walk away.
 
chrisreedrules said:
Well the first hour and a half of the interview went well, the last half hour not so much. When the conversation turned to the contract/bennies/money we basically just didn't see eye to eye. The CP was not against me going to get my PIC instead of my SIC type but he said he would have to see how I did and if he felt comfortable sending me. But he would not tell me what exactly that means or when that may be. I wanted to go to training and was willing to sign a 1 year contract immediately upon completion of my "probationary period" but then he told me he would want me to wait at least 6 months to a year before doing that. So I said, "so basically I could be on probation for up to a year"? To which he said I didn't understand what he was saying and explained it again. So I said, "no, I understand what your saying, but if your going to wait up to a year to send me to training and sign a contract, then I'm basically on probation for that whole time because I could be let go at any time for any reason and I wouldn't have anything to show for it". At this point I was becoming very skeptical of this whole thing but we moved on... Next we talked about pay/contract. I told him I would feel comfortable with signing a 1 year pro-rated contract for 35K on completion of my PIC type. He told me they were absolutely not willing to budge on the 2 year pro-rated contract but that second year pay would go up to 45K. I told him to sign a 2 year contract that I would need a good bit more money than that. He didn't like that answer at all and proceeded to compare their pay with first year regional pay etc... So I asked, "well what kind of health insurance and retirement are you offering"? The answer: NONE. So I basically told him that for a job that he was trying to tell me was a career job, it seemed strange for it not to come with industry standard health and retirement benefits. He said no one had ever said that before. It basically ended right around there and he did say that he had to talk to the owner and that he would call me tonight or tomorrow and let me know. But I'm not holding my breath. Right before I left he did say that there was a day trip down to PBI and back on Monday and asked me how much I wanted to fly right seat. I told him $300 and he scoffed. I think you get the picture from here. Substandard contract, no hard time off (yes that's right, he told me they are paying me to be on call basically 24/7. In fact, when I specifically asked about hard days off, he said, "you must think this is an airline interview or something"), and he said I wasn't allowed to drink at all on layovers (seriously). Not that I'm even a big drinker but if I'm not flying the next day I might like to have a beer with my dinner. WELCOME TO FLORIDA! We are a swamp surrounded by water that doubles as an aviation career graveyard. The search for a good job continues!
Click to expand...

Danggggg. I work for a cp that always has my back no matter the circumstance. My cp will always give his 2 cents, but stand behind me whatever my decision.

Disgusting to know that the CP scoffed at you. That tells me enough about the CP RIGHT there.

Best of luck in your search
 
TrustMeI'maPilot said:
Wow, I can't stand owners that think like this, but I guess that comes with the territory. What's worse is a CP that thinks along these lines, he needs a swift kick to the nuts.

Anyway, I would run not walk away.
Click to expand...

It really is amazing how much damage a bad CP can do to a flight dept. Once the owner sees that pilots can be treated like garbage, it's hard to change that mentality.

You'd think a constant revolving door would be some clue (particularly since it affects the bottom line), but not always.
 
Another scumbag operation.... Good on you for being able to see through that crap.

I can see it coming from a mile away now, although it wasn't as bad as that. Unfortunately, I had to get sucked into it for a bit to learn from my own mistake. I even had a recommendation from someone in the industry I trusted, so I sort of went in blind with optimism.

If they're trying to lock you in for two years there is defiantly something wrong...

OTOH... If it weren't for that mistake, I wouldn't have considered to be where I am now.
 
Last edited:
Yea, it's for the best honestly. I'm sure if I accepted all of that would of just been the tip of the iceberg. I actually was going to ask why they seemed to be searching for a new FO every 6 months or so (this isn't the first, or second time I've seen this job posting before) but he told me the last guy left after about 8 months because he was driving in from over 3 hours away and complained that 35K was not enough to justify the work load and time/money spent commuting. There were some other red flags (namely his claim to have designed the ipad yoke mount) but overall the guy just didn't seem too pleasant to work with. Which of course could of been overcome with money in my eyes. Especially with as little flying as they do. But hey... On to the next one.
 
TwoTwoLeft said:
If they're trying to lock you in for two years there is defiantly something wrong...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that a 2 year contract is a big red flag. I signed a 2 year contract at my current employer. Great pay, great bennies, several PIC types, and lots of time off.
 
IslandFlyer said:
I wouldn't say that a 2 year contract is a big red flag. I signed a 2 year contract at my current employer. Great pay, great bennies, several PIC types, and lots of time off.
Click to expand...
It isn't under certain circumstances. But: 2 year contract + low pay + no bennies + zero quality of life multiplied by dillisional CP trying to prey on those with SJS = your gonna have a bad time.
 
IslandFlyer said:
I wouldn't say that a 2 year contract is a big red flag. I signed a 2 year contract at my current employer. Great pay, great bennies, several PIC types, and lots of time off.
Click to expand...

On the surface that's what it looked like! Got typed, pay was OK, benefits were good... It just took getting in to find out what things were really like and what looked promising on the outside turned out to be another dead end.
 
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