V1, Rotate- and the jet won't. You're the FO..

jynxyjoe said:
Oh I think this thread proves we don't always say that. Cut after V1 due to control malfunction has always been a par to of me brief for as far back as I can remember and I've never heard any flak because of it. However, I get the feeling when I drone on no one is listening so --- hello? Hello? You all already tuned out? I quit. :)
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Depends on the captain. Some folks bring it up, some don't. Honestly I've only done one abort at this job and that was somewhere between 80 and 100 knots, so we weren't really cooking at that point. Technically a "high speed" abort, but not high speed enough to really get your attention ya know?
 
jtrain609 said:
Depends on the captain. Some folks bring it up, some don't. Honestly I've only done one abort at this job and that was somewhere between 80 and 100 knots, so we weren't really cooking at that point. Technically a "high speed" abort, but not high speed enough to really get your attention ya know?
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Of the three Ive had, one was below 100 kts for a blown tire....generally that was our cutoff for a go/no go for that EP; and the other two were 140ish and 165ish, one for an engine fire warning with associated EGT, the other for generator/converter failure with a low IMC ceiling. Even though abort at these speeds was "test pilot" territory, this is where pilot judgement comes in....where the real pay is earned in knowing whether to take a sick aircraft airborne or not.....and all the risks therein, or keep it on the ground.....with all the risks inherent in doing that. Granted, in the second case, there was departure-end arresting barrier available, and in the third case there was a drag chute used as well as two sets of arresting cables and a departure end barrier available; still we had a pre-plan knowledge of what kinds of things we would risk a high-speed abort for, as well as others that were simply judgement calls. No one wanted to end up like the recent Oceana NAS F/A-18 accident, in terms of how it ended....not implying any causal factors.......and those were real things to think about when it came to taking a seriously sick aircraft airborne or not, as it's not just us or our pax we have to consider. There's alot more we as pilots are ultimately responsible for.
 
jtrain609 said:
Depends on the captain. Some folks bring it up, some don't. Honestly I've only done one abort at this job and that was somewhere between 80 and 100 knots, so we weren't really cooking at that point. Technically a "high speed" abort, but not high speed enough to really get your attention ya know?
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Probably not on a balanced field, either.
 
With the comments about being a "test pilot" aborting past V1, makes me curious. Do the heavy aircraft out there not have charted Vrefusal data?

I know our 707 data includes these charts. Granted, we rarely use them as we do honor the "go" mentality of V1. However, when we're 300k+ lbs and on a wet runway, sometimes our Critical Field Length begins to approach the Runway Available. We run Vrefusal as a sanity check on being able to stop within the runway available.

Controllablity should not be an issue during an abort after V1, just the question about accelerate stop distance. Have a Vrefusal number helps solve this question.
 
More data-
The elevator doesn't seem stuck- the nose just won't come up.
3,000 feet chewed, 9,000 remaining.

At my particular carrier, either pilot can call the abort. At the same time, aborts beyond V1 are not trained.

Consider accelerate stop vs accelerate go. How are these calculated? How would this potentially affect your decision?

Also- in this hypothetical scenario, the captain wrestles with the trim and burns another 6000 feet. He rotates and the jet flies with 3,000 feet remaining. What then?
 
Jeez. If V1 was at 3000 feet, and 6000 more feet is used, I'd think an ERJ would be at 170-180 knots by then. This might end up being a tire speed limit discussion. :)
 
Firebird2XC said:
More data-
The elevator doesn't seem stuck- the nose just won't come up.
3,000 feet chewed, 9,000 remaining.

At my particular carrier, either pilot can call the abort. At the same time, aborts beyond V1 are not trained.

Consider accelerate stop vs accelerate go. How are these calculated? How would this potentially affect your decision?

Also- in this hypothetical scenario, the captain wrestles with the trim and burns another 6000 feet. He rotates and the jet flies with 3,000 feet remaining. What then?
Click to expand...
ask the fa to move some folks to the back? :)
 
Firebird2XC said:
More data-
The elevator doesn't seem stuck- the nose just won't come up.
3,000 feet chewed, 9,000 remaining.

At my particular carrier, either pilot can call the abort. At the same time, aborts beyond V1 are not trained.

Consider accelerate stop vs accelerate go. How are these calculated? How would this potentially affect your decision?

Also- in this hypothetical scenario, the captain wrestles with the trim and burns another 6000 feet. He rotates and the jet flies with 3,000 feet remaining. What then?
Click to expand...
We're going to go off somewhere, make sure we have pitch control, let the FA get the folks briefed and ready, then come in and land it, with the equipment standing by.
 
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