UPS A300 down at Birmingham AL

Boris Badenov said:
Meh, it's probably all what you get used to. I flew with Gummint plates for long enough that I got used to them. When I finally flew with Jepps, I was all to seek. So they're basically the same, I guess, except Jepps cost some ridiculous amount of money and some poor bastard has to update them, whereas Gummint Cheese comes in a giant box. Throw out the old box, put in the new. That was literally true at "Rough Rider". They'd ground freight me a giant box with every NOS plate known to man. At 23:59 on the changeover day, I'd toss one great big box in to the dumpster and put the new one, you know, "back there, somewhere" till needed. Not one damned "revision" involved.
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Agree. I've always been 50/50 on NOS vs. Jepp and I pity pilots who say "ERHMERGERD I HATE NOS SO MUCH THEY'RE TURRIBLE!" Because it's really just a matter of reading a slightly different format.

However better the graphic/info display of Jepp plates is, the Achilles heel is their update format. I signed off the revision checklist at the front of the manual. Is it 100% correct? Uh, I think so. Let me go through page by page with the checklist for 2 hours and make sure. Add to that the fact that every podunk airport now gets a GPS approach and squeezing pages into the front and back ends of the binder becomes a nightmare. Fortunately, EFB proliferation should eventually cease that stupidity all together.
 
SteveC said:
Same minimums. (Still not sure why Jepp publishes it that way on this approach.)

edit to add: There is no requirement to use Jepp charts. Look at this and tell me why you wouldn't fly it at night with operational VGSI:
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If I had access to government charts then i'd agree. Fact is I'm not going to carry two charts for everywhere just incase one is different. IF i had to goto BHM at night last week I woulda seen the mins on the Jepp and said we either need to switch runways or do the rnav.
 
Cal Goat said:
Agree. I've always been 50/50 on NOS vs. Jepp and I pity pilots who say "ERHMERGERD I HATE NOS SO MUCH THEY'RE TURRIBLE!" Because it's really just a matter of reading a slightly different format.

However better the graphic/info display of Jepp plates is, the Achilles heel is their update format. I signed off the revision checklist at the front of the manual. Is it 100% correct? Uh, I think so. Let me go through page by page with the checklist for 2 hours and make sure. Add to that the fact that every podunk airport now gets a GPS approach and squeezing pages into the front and back ends of the binder becomes a nightmare. Fortunately, EFB proliferation should eventually cease that stupidity all together.
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Throw your content away every two years and order new. ;)
 
Boris Badenov said:
If you can't read NOS, why not pursue a career in something less demanding, like lawn or sanitation engineering?
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NOS charts read like they were designed by someone using a template from geocities circa 1999. Or alternatively, they loaded the chart information into a shotgun and fired it at the plate.
 
Roger Roger said:
NOS charts read like they were designed by someone using a template from geocities circa 1999. Or alternatively, they loaded the chart information into a shotgun and fired it at the plate.
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It's all there. After the first 30 or 50 approaches, you know where to find it. The converse question is "Why in the name of the Deity of your Choice should anyone pay some secondary organization to parrot this information is a slightly more monkey-friendly format?" I don't think I'll ever understand the Luv for Jepps. I mean, if you're confused or don't understand, READ THE DOCUMENTATION. All of the ballsiest approaches I ever did in all of the worst equipment I ever flew were done with a flipbook of NOS plates rubber-banded and flying around the cockpit. I landed safely, and I'm not exactly Bob Hoover.
 
Boris Badenov said:
IThe converse question is "Why in the name of the Deity of your Choice should anyone pay some secondary organization to parrot this information is a slightly more monkey-friendly format?" I don't think I'll ever understand the Luv for Jepps.
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If you point me in the direction of an alternate to Jepp charts for my Caribbean trips this fall and winter, I'd appreciate it...
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
If you point me in the direction of an alternate to Jepp charts for my Caribbean trips this fall and winter, I'd appreciate it...
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As I said earlier, long-lander, I admit the necessity of this ridiculous company for international trips. I'll never understand using them domestically, though. SO THERE.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
If you point me in the direction of an alternate to Jepp charts for my Caribbean trips this fall and winter, I'd appreciate it...
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For what it costs me to get Bahamas coverage from Jepp's, it is about $10/year more to cover Florida as well. Pretty much the only reason I still use them.
 
Boris Badenov said:
As I said earlier, long-lander, I admit the necessity of this ridiculous company for international trips. I'll never understand using them domestically, though. SO THERE.
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Would you agree that there may be a safety concern with switching between NACO and Jepp for domestic and international trips, respectively?
 
Boris Badenov said:
As I said earlier, long-lander, I admit the necessity of this ridiculous company for international trips. I'll never understand using them domestically, though. SO THERE.
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So what your advocating is we use two different types of charts. NOS domestically and Jepps for international work? And because of this, those of us that use iPads need to have two different programs as well to display the different charts.

Orrrrrr you could just use one format for everything and call it good minus the corporate greed diatribe.

Now don your onesie and your rubberband....
 
Approach plates, whether government or Jeppesen, are created from FAA Form 8260-10, which is the official instrument approach procedure created pursuant to Part 97.

The following is the link to the 8260 form for the KBHM RNAV 18 http://aeronav.faa.gov/acifp/ndbr/2011100326949301001-BHM-NDBR/AL_BIRMINGHAM_RG18_BHM.pdf

Notice that there is no prohibition for conducting this approach at night, nor is there any difference in minimums for day vs night


Last year the approach was amended to prohibit this approach at night when the VGSI is inoperative, http://aeronav.faa.gov/acifp/ndbr/2011100326949301001-BHM-NDBR/P-NOTAM_AL_BIRMINGHAM_1-3759_BHM.pdf

When Jeppesen revised the plate they made a mistake. The government plate is correct.

If you ever have a question about an approach, check the FAA database and look up the 8260-10. It is located at https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/procedures/

What you are looking for the are the IFP documents for the airport.
 
GypsyPilot said:
I think that Jepp plate is a real gotcha... They really need to make it clear the approach is NA at night in the notes... I think it would be VERY easy to miss the "NA" at night section in the minimums if I were doing a straight in to 18. It's late, I'm tired, etc... Yeah, I could EASILY miss that one I'll admit it.
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I'm not sure if the plate is a causal factor or not but I will say, giving the plate the old "once over" the "night only" wasn't that apparent.
 
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