UPS A300 down at Birmingham AL

The government plates are from the, uh, government. Last time I checked, they're still the Organ Of Truth that will be prosecuting you if you commit a no-no. Plus, no freaking updates. I honestly don't understand how Jeppesen stays in bidness.

Edit: Domestically, anyway.
 
SteveC said:
Same minimums. (Still not sure why Jepp publishes it that way on this approach.)

edit to add: There is no requirement to use Jepp charts. Look at this and tell me why you wouldn't fly it at night with operational VGSI:
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I agree it's legal per the government charts...but if jepp was my authorized chart provider, there's no way I'd fly it based on what they print.
 
SteveC said:
I agree with you, but I take issue with people saying that you can't fly the approach at night period.
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Absolutely. Government's official. That being said, Jeppesen employs their own cartographers, so I wonder if they've calculated things differently somehow.
 
zmiller4 said:
Absolutely. Government's official. That being said, Jeppesen employs their own cartographers, so I wonder if they've calculated things differently somehow.
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Doesn't Jeppesen also change (ie raise or restrict approaches) based on specific carrier Op Spec?
 
As I understand it, an approach in the US is created by the gov't TERPS folks. The DOD chart comes direct from them and should always be the most correct source of information. Jeppesen is basically a copy/print service for the agencies who create approaches. They don't go out and certify that the things they're given/reprint are correct. This was explained to us as the reason we were only allowed to use DOD produced plates for foreign countries in the AF unless a Jepp plate had been specially checked and approved for use.
 
SteveC said:
I agree with you, but I take issue with people saying that you can't fly the approach at night period.
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First of all my deepest condolences to those involved and affected by the accident.

I also agree with this. I'm confused why so many are focused solely on what the Jepps say. I give the final authority to the government chart. Fully agree with the decision of those who say that if they were using the Jepp chart, with the apparently contradicting info, on going with the more conservative option.

Just a question for the sake of discussion Why would an instrument approach, designed to be flown with no outside reference not be available at night? Unless maybe we are talking about leaving the published approach and continuing visually to land.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I honestly don't understand how Jeppesen stays in bidness.
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They stay in business because they contract to the airlines, and they give them a HUGE amount of space savings by only giving them the plates they need. They also give them stuff that makes it easier to navigate around the termianls and the proper frequencies to use.

Plus, the lay out is way better(IMO). You don't have to go looking for information all over the place to find it. It's usually right there on the plate. I loath government plates. They information is scattered and sometimes hard to disimenate, just like, well, the government.
 
Meh, it's probably all what you get used to. I flew with Gummint plates for long enough that I got used to them. When I finally flew with Jepps, I was all to seek. So they're basically the same, I guess, except Jepps cost some ridiculous amount of money and some poor bastard has to update them, whereas Gummint Cheese comes in a giant box. Throw out the old box, put in the new. That was literally true at "Rough Rider". They'd ground freight me a giant box with every NOS plate known to man. At 23:59 on the changeover day, I'd toss one great big box in to the dumpster and put the new one, you know, "back there, somewhere" till needed. Not one damned "revision" involved.
 
giddy said:
...Unless maybe we are talking about leaving the published approach and continuing visually to land.
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Yeah, this. Without a VGSI you could see the airport and start down too early. With no lights below it can be difficult to judge slope in some conditions.
 
GypsyPilot said:
It is, and I'm sure 99% of us would immediately catch it. But we've all had those days, and once you're in the mode of seeing what you want to see (e.g. "The notes say I need a PAPI, I have one"). An easy approach not anywhere close to mins, straight in so you might not glance over to the right where circling minima usually reside, and voila - the trap is set.
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Oh, don't get me wrong - I agree. But it seems again to me that Jeppesen is more restrictive than the Federales here for whatever reason.
 
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