UPS A300 down at Birmingham AL

I think that Jepp plate is a real gotcha... They really need to make it clear the approach is NA at night in the notes... I think it would be VERY easy to miss the "NA" at night section in the minimums if I were doing a straight in to 18. It's late, I'm tired, etc... Yeah, I could EASILY miss that one I'll admit it.
 
I think that Jepp plate is a real gotcha... They really need to make it clear the approach is NA at night in the notes... I think it would be VERY easy to miss the "NA" at night section in the minimums if I were doing a straight in to 18. It's late, I'm tired, etc... Yeah, I could EASILY miss that one I'll admit it.

The Jepp plate has it in the notes and the minimums section.
Government chart only has it in the notes.
 
I think that Jepp plate is a real gotcha... They really need to make it clear the approach is NA at night in the notes... I think it would be VERY easy to miss the "NA" at night section in the minimums if I were doing a straight in to 18. It's late, I'm tired, etc... Yeah, I could EASILY miss that one I'll admit it.


There is totally contradicting information in the two charts. In the notes, the Jepp has it NA at night only when the PAPI is out. In the minimums, the Jepp makes it looks like its *never* authorized at night. The government plate has it NA only without the PAPI's at night.

I downloaded the best publicly available digital elevation for the runway and north, and it's pretty easy to see why it's NA without the PAPI. The grey line is the 3.2 deg PAPI glide angle, and the red is a best guess at the obstacle clearance plane that starts 300ft from the PAPI and has an angle 1 deg less than the 3rd light (which should be less than than 3.2, so the 2.2deg OCS is likely higher than it should be). I think the hill at 2.1mi is probably a DEM inaccuracy, but there's still a lot of terrain in the last mile. I think it's all unlit, too.

Looking at the photos and Google Earth, the first clearly visible contact looks like about 2.3 mi.
 

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So, we're looking at possible CFIT? Looking at that Jepp, I agree that the notes and the minimums block contradict each other. Seems like the notes need to read "NA at night" regardless of VGSI.
 
The Jepp plate has it in the notes and the minimums section.
Government chart only has it in the notes.


The Jepp plate only says NA at night with the VGSI inop in the notes section. That's the gotcha in my opinion... It would lead one to believe that it is authorized at night with working (in this case) PAPIs. Yes, it does say night is NA in the minimums section. But the point is the plate is somewhat contradictory and could cause confusion.
 
There is totally contradicting information in the two charts. In the notes, the Jepp has it NA at night only when the PAPI is out. In the minimums, the Jepp makes it looks like its *never* authorized at night. The government plate has it NA only without the PAPI's at night.

I downloaded the best publicly available digital elevation for the runway and north, and it's pretty easy to see why it's NA without the PAPI. The grey line is the 3.2 deg PAPI glide angle, and the red is a best guess at the obstacle clearance plane that starts 300ft from the PAPI and has an angle 1 deg less than the 3rd light (which should be less than than 3.2, so the 2.2deg OCS is likely higher than it should be). I think the hill at 2.1mi is probably a DEM inaccuracy, but there's still a lot of terrain in the last mile. I think it's all unlit, too.

Looking at the photos and Google Earth, the first clearly visible contact looks like about 2.3 mi.


Very interesting data, thanks for posting that.
 
The Jepp plate only says NA at night with the VGSI inop in the notes section. That's the gotcha in my opinion... It would lead one to believe that it is authorized at night with working (in this case) PAPIs. Yes, it does say night is NA in the minimums section. But the point is the plate is somewhat contradictory and could cause confusion.

If papis are functioning, and you wanted to fly the approach, what would you use for minimums?
 
Fair enough, although to me "NA" in the night minimums block is somewhat unambiguous.


It is, and I'm sure 99% of us would immediately catch it. But we've all had those days, and once you're in the mode of seeing what you want to see (e.g. "The notes say I need a PAPI, I have one"). An easy approach not anywhere close to mins, straight in so you might not glance over to the right where circling minima usually reside, and voila - the trap is set.
 
If papis are functioning, and you wanted to fly the approach, what would you use for minimums?
Same minimums. (Still not sure why Jepp publishes it that way on this approach.)

edit to add: There is no requirement to use Jepp charts. Look at this and tell me why you wouldn't fly it at night with operational VGSI:
 

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