Update: UPS flight dispatchers are asking to be paid like counterparts at Delta, American

[DE727UPS]

Just out of curiosity, do the UPS unions and their members have the financial WHEREWITHAL to sustain a strike? Have you all prepared to go toe-to-toe with management? Are you all ready for battle? I hope so...

Oh yeah. The pilot group would most assuredly back the dispatchers if there was a strike. It's absurd to think the company would force a strike over such a small group of aviation professionals as the dispatch cadre. The RLA allows the company to drag things on pretty much as long as they want. If the mechanics vote their contract in then I think the dispatchers will have a TA soon after.

 

[Socks and sandals]

I support private sector unions but certainly not public sector unions.
With that being said COL will never be addressed. No one is forcing anyone to work for any carrier or live in a particular location.

It won't be addressed until it is

That's the American spirit! If you don't like this country, don't try to change it just leave! YEAH! MAGA! DRAIN THE SWAP! WHERES MY REALTREE JACKET!?

Hahaha I know I'm late but this had me crying!

 

[Socks and sandals]

I don’t care if someone agrees. As a matter of fact I enjoy the debate. With that said Just making a point about the hypocrisy. Evil capitalist while asking for more from same evil capitalist. Interesting how that works!
I expect most on here are young and have never experienced tough times and seen how capitalism gives all an opportunity to make “

The lack of awareness is unreal. It'ss like entering the twilight zone.
I hate Capitalism --- BUT I WANT TO NEGOTIATE a RAISE
All these complaints and arguments about contracts and raises is all possible thanks to capitalism.

How would this industry operate in a socialist country?

It would work like France, where Air France pilots strike without government prevention.

 

[who'swho]

It would work like France, where Air France pilots strike without government prevention.

Stop making sense! Haven't you be educated enough by reading through here to know that it's all very simple? Unions = socialism. The end. LOL

 

[Socks and sandals]

Stop making sense! Haven't you be educated enough by reading through here to know that it's all very simple? Unions = socialism. The end. LOL

I'm going to move to Venezuela, where TRUE socialism exists!

 

[manniax]

Just to correct the statement that we’ve been negotiating for two years, it’s actually been 3+. We’ve been in mediation 23 months.

Just for your knowledge, the pilot group was in negotiations for 5 years. They had a majority strike vote and were about to be released from mediation when the IPA secured their current and leading contract.

Long, drawn out contract negotiations are unfortunately not all that uncommon. I believe that the Legacy UA dispatchers were in negotiation for something like ten years before they got a new contract. (The CO merger did slow things down, and then you had management attempting to play the two work groups off of each other, which didn't work.) I also think there was also a post-9/11 mentality on the part of management in that they had successfully been getting concessionary/no-raise contracts with employee groups ever since 2001 and had a very hard time wrapping their heads around agreeing to a contract with a large raise. Hopefully UPS is able to settle contracts with all their work groups soon - they certainly can afford to pay everyone there more money and still be very profitable.

 

[pljenkins]

No clue how collective bargaining works? LOL History class? From the guy who thinks socialism works? I certainly hope no group allows you to negotiate on their behalf.

No clue how collective bargaining works? LOL History class? From the guy who thinks socialism works? I certainly hope no group allows you to negotiate on their behalf.

Had to get that in twice, just to be sure?

Oh, and there a phone call for you on line 1. It's Finland.

 

[METARd]

 

[FXMXC]

With 100% backing of the IPA and MX group, I’m pretty sure it would be crippling to the operation. Not to mention the support from the ground side. Any one of our groups strike, the operation is severely crippled. This is union members supporting union members (not that we’ve seen 100% of that here from a select few JC members!). And contrary to what you believe from your personal experience, not a single qualified UPS dispatcher (not on probation) would be crossing any line. 100% unity.


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Well I have to admit in your case UPS you are most likely correct that I am sure your people will all stick together. UPS pilots even honored our strike at NWA and would not accept any NW cargo. But like I said I lived it and you would not believe what a company with deep pockets will do to win. JMHO. Wishing you guys all the best I am sure it will not come to a strike situation..

 

[FXMXC]

Given your awareness of the dispatcher's role in operational control I'm curious how you've come to this conclusion? No dispatchers = no flights released = u no go fly today. Unless the President can figure out a way to suspend the CFRs I'm not seeing a pathway by which a part 121 carrier can operate if all of the dispatchers at the carrier are marching around with signs. I honestly think he would sooner order the dispatchers back to work and grant them binding arbitration.

It seems like there's a lot of "blaming the victim" here. It might help to go back to the beginning of this thread where it's pointed out that UPS has been in negotiating in good faith with the company for over 2 years and have not been able to reach an agreement. Both parties are not interested in this fight continuing, but neither can agree on one or more points. This is why the NMB exists, this is why strike authorization and the subsequent cooling off period exists, this is why Executive intervention triggering binding arbitration exists. It's what's called "leverage" and it's nothing personal, only business. A company can decide that they are unable or unwilling to compromise on an item negotiated. If the work group can not see a path forward they lay that grievance upon the National Mediation Board, who will assess the situation and determine if they truly are at an impasse or whether one or both parties have not explored all options or are operating in bad faith. If it's found that the company is refusing to budge and there truly is an impasse a work group will go to its collective workers and tally a strike vote. If the vote passes the union will petition the NMB for relief, which usually is a request for release from arbitration and an authority to strike. The NMB will generally release the parties from arbitration and demand a period of time (a cooling off period) before the union members can execute "self-help", or strike. At any time during this cooling off period both parties can return to the negotiating table, and most strikes are averted in this time period via an tentative agreement. If no agreement is reached and the cooling off period expires workers are legally allowed to strike. At any time during the cooling off period too the government can intervene and prevent a strike if it has compelling reason to believe that a strike would create a national or security emergency (and one could reasonably argue that the sudden stoppage of 1/3 of the cargo movement in the United States might qualify). This is codified through the National Railway Labor Act.

So all this to say, there are a LOT of mechanisms in place to keep union workers from just arbitrarily getting up and leaving is any little thing pisses them off. Also, to those of you who have voiced a disdain for organized labor, sorry. It's a 1st Amendment right.

No I understand what you're saying but what I am saying is you don't seem to understand a company with the deep pockets UPS has will always have a work around. If an airline like UAL can fly airplanes with pilots on strike a company can fly airplanes with dispatchers on strike you will have management stepping in and doing releases etc..There are companies like Jeppesen that offer dispatch services I am not saying it will come to that but don't think for a minute they can't or won't do it. I can't honestly ever remember a dispatch group going out on strike I really don't know why it is an issue now especially knowing that the UPS group more than others are more prone to honor each others picket line and the record profits they are making has me scratching my head. At any rate all the best to the dispatch group at UPS I am confident they will prevail. This is exactly the reason as an aside that full retro has to be demanded. The RLA allows airlines to drag their feet for years until the work groups are broke down and wind up accepting a "signing bonus" instead of full retro pay.

 

[FXMXC]

Oh yeah. The pilot group would most assuredly back the dispatchers if there was a strike. It's absurd to think the company would force a strike over such a small group of aviation professionals as the dispatch cadre. The RLA allows the company to drag things on pretty much as long as they want. If the mechanics vote their contract in then I think the dispatchers will have a TA soon after.

I agree you guys at UPS did honor our mechanic (AMFA) strike and we appreciate that. Like I said in a post the RLA allows the companies to drag out contracts and by the time a T/A comes out the groups usually jump at a "signing bonus" instead of full retro pay.

 

[MAK49]

I'm going to move to Venezuela, where TRUE socialism exists!

Except Venezuela's issues have nothing to do with socialism

 

[Socks and sandals]

Except Venezuela's issues have nothing to do with socialism

Yep.

 

[Flying Saluki]

I think the danger of a UPS Air strike is that shippers will simply shift to FedEx, DHL, or ground transport. It's not like passenger where tickets are booked weeks or even months in advance. Would the world would even notice if UPS Air shut down?

 

[who'swho]

I think the danger of a UPS Air strike is that shippers will simply shift to FedEx, DHL, or ground transport. It's not like passenger where tickets are booked weeks or even months in advance. Would the world would even notice if UPS Air shut down?

This was discussed pretty extensively with some very good reasons given why UPS would be impossible to replace. The cargo industry is hot right now. When they are bringing every available 747 freighter out of the boneyard you know it's crazy. You don't just replace UPS in that environment.

 

[womanpilot73]

This was discussed pretty extensively with some very good reasons given why UPS would be impossible to replace. The cargo industry is hot right now. When they are bringing every available 747 freighter out of the boneyard you know it's crazy. You don't just replace UPS in that environment.

I think he also missed the part where if the airside shuts down, so does the ground side. Considering we sort 2+++ million packages a day through Worldport, I think people would notice.

Here’s a short article posted during last peak on the number of flights, and packages sorted & delivered on a daily basis.

UPS in Louisville handles millions of packages a day. This is what that looks like




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[FXMXC]

I think he also missed the part where if the airside shuts down, so does the ground side. Considering we sort 2+++ million packages a day through Worldport, I think people would notice.

Here’s a short article posted during last peak on the number of flights, and packages sorted & delivered on a daily basis.

UPS in Louisville handles millions of packages a day. This is what that looks like




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I don't think I would sweat it Womanpilot you guys are not going to strike. I think my friends on the AMT side at UPS they have an AIP on a contract don't know if they will vote yes but it seems to be getting closer and I am sure you guys are right behind them. They are all making too much money to justify not giving employees a good deal and thats a good thing.

 

[4EngineETOPS]

This was discussed pretty extensively with some very good reasons given why UPS would be impossible to replace. The cargo industry is hot right now. When they are bringing every available 747 freighter out of the boneyard you know it's crazy. You don't just replace UPS in that environment.

I was joking when I said the supplementals need to comb the boneyards, but you're right. A cursory glance at stored heavy airframes shows that there isn't much to choose from in terms of dedicated freighters. There's a couple 747s and a few MD-11s sitting around, but the vast majority of the flyable boneyard fleet has been bought by various ACMI, integrator, and dedicated cargo carriers. Fuel prices are low relative to the recession period, so many are holding onto their older airframes rather than investing in new factory freighters. Even the 777F and 747F lines are seeing a resurgence in orders. Air cargo is down a bit from last year, but clearly the people running the show think things will continue to be good for the next several years at least.

 

[pljenkins]

No I understand what you're saying but what I am saying is you don't seem to understand a company with the deep pockets UPS has will always have a work around. If an airline like UAL can fly airplanes with pilots on strike a company can fly airplanes with dispatchers on strike you will have management stepping in and doing releases etc..There are companies like Jeppesen that offer dispatch services I am not saying it will come to that but don't think for a minute they can't or won't do it. I can't honestly ever remember a dispatch group going out on strike I really don't know why it is an issue now especially knowing that the UPS group more than others are more prone to honor each others picket line and the record profits they are making has me scratching my head. At any rate all the best to the dispatch group at UPS I am confident they will prevail. This is exactly the reason as an aside that full retro has to be demanded. The RLA allows airlines to drag their feet for years until the work groups are broke down and wind up accepting a "signing bonus" instead of full retro pay.

I see your point, and certainly you could expect that there could be some level of management (though I imagine management folks with ADX licenses and currency are few if any) or subcontracting to bring up the slack, but logistically speaking either of those options range from severely limited operations (Scabs) to a period where there's no operation until either the management dispatchers are line qualified or an external entity is approved by the FSDO (which would take months at a minimum). United did operate flights during the 1985 strike, but at a laughably limited schedule that cost the airline dearly in cash and customer loyalty.

The dispatch group might be small, but I liken it to taking the fuel pump out of a car. It's a small part of the car; almost unnoticeable, but without it your car is as dead as if you had removed the entire engine. If the mechanics and or pilots honor the picket line, well now you've also removed the starter and the battery.

 

[manniax]

I see your point, and certainly you could expect that there could be some level of management (though I imagine management folks with ADX licenses and currency are few if any) or subcontracting to bring up the slack, but logistically speaking either of those options range from severely limited operations (Scabs) to a period where there's no operation until either the management dispatchers are line qualified or an external entity is approved by the FSDO (which would take months at a minimum). United did operate flights during the 1985 strike, but at a laughably limited schedule that cost the airline dearly in cash and customer loyalty.

The dispatch group might be small, but I liken it to taking the fuel pump out of a car. It's a small part of the car; almost unnoticeable, but without it your car is as dead as if you had removed the entire engine. If the mechanics and or pilots honor the picket line, well now you've also removed the starter and the battery.

The last time there was a UPS strike, the dispatch group wasn't unionized so I think they were still able to operate some flights, although I forget all the details on how that worked - if it happened this time and the dispatchers refused to cross picket lines, it would have a much greater impact on operations than in the 1997 strike. Also, as @McCrosky mentioned, it would cause a big hit to UPS stock, which wasn't the case last time around as they were not publicly traded then.

I doubt the current administration would allow a strike to happen - they would probably use the Railway Labor Act try to force binding arbitration or something along those lines. I'm no expert in labor law though. Hopefully all the employee groups at UPS get a fair contract soon.