Update: UPS flight dispatchers are asking to be paid like counterparts at Delta, American

You are more than welcome to leave this Capitalist Evil Empire and look for work in Venezuela but I’m pretty sure you are all talk.
The irony is fighting for a contract = capitalism
Set wages determined by government = socialism. Which do you support again?

It's hilarious and tragic at the same time that Venezuela keeps getting marched out as the gold standard of socialism by people who either have not one single solitary clue about Venezuela or do and conveniently ignore many key points that explain why they are in the situation they're in. None the less, blurting out talking points (and old, beat to hell, debunked ones at that) will get you nowhere with this crowd, Sparky. Trolling isn't something Derg is going to suffer for any length of time. What say you either stick to the topic or just listen and maybe learn something.

k, thx. bye.
 
Ok, this is getting comical. The idea of pulling aircraft from the boneyards to run our operation has me in stitches this morning! Lol. Thanks guys :D


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I know a few nice 767s that are baking in the dese.... oh, wait.. They're razor blades now. Drat. I rather liked 637!
 
Meaning you should just be allowed to strike until you get what you want? What sort of society would this be if you threw a tantrum every time you didn’t get what you wanted.
A strike is nothing more than a tantrum.
We want more we want more!
As easy as you want it to be able to strike do you also want it that easy to be fired?
Actions have consequences!
Families need their paycheck but here you advocating a quicker strike so employees aren’t paid!

Spoken like a guy who has no clue how collective bargaining and labor law works, and apparently didn't do too well in history class. But hey, if you're good with letting corporations dictate work rules, wages, and benefits for you then Somalia is looking for a few good men!
 
I really hope for the sake of your unknowing passengers that you understand dispatching better than contracts. So far every post you have thrown out on this thread has been ill-informed and shows that you'd rather push your opinion onto others as facts than to discuss anything. Please don't defend yourself either because this thread has weeks of your venomous comments to cite.

I will add one thing to this discussion that hasn't been addressed thus far. UPS's EBIT or Operating Income was almost the exact same last year as AAL and SWA combined and 1Q18 it was up 14%. Company earnings matter and if you think they don't then ask every single Dispatcher who has ever had a contract signed during a bankruptcy. You will find that has been the very reason many Dispatchers and Pilots alike have had to settle for below industry standard.
Update: Uknowing passengers seem to be ok with my dispatching.

Any talk or whispers about PAFCA?

Also, FedEx is non union, right? Anyone have any insight as to what they make?

It is clear that a hierarchy of pay/QOL exists, and will continue to exist. Whether any of us like it or not, Legacy vs LCC vs Cargo vs Regional however you want to cut it, at some level it is what it is. That being said after seeing the pay scales stacked up to one another, assuming they’re correct, and reflecting on my current experience it does seems egregious that a year 1-2 guy at a Legacy can make more than a topped out guy at UPS, almost working the same amount of hours (and regional guys I know your pain all too well, and you’re probably sick of 6 figure folks complaining about money). I’ve got a couple buddies in Brown who are top notch guys. When this thread started like 6 months ago I didn’t know how massive even a little (or a lot of) OT would affect my pay.
 
Well not to make any enemies on here but IF and thats a BIG IF the NMB releases UPS DXers to strike they are not shutting anything down. A group of 200 or so dispatchers are not bringing any airline to it's knees you're too small of a group even if your job is operational control.

Given your awareness of the dispatcher's role in operational control I'm curious how you've come to this conclusion? No dispatchers = no flights released = u no go fly today. Unless the President can figure out a way to suspend the CFRs I'm not seeing a pathway by which a part 121 carrier can operate if all of the dispatchers at the carrier are marching around with signs. I honestly think he would sooner order the dispatchers back to work and grant them binding arbitration.

It seems like there's a lot of "blaming the victim" here. It might help to go back to the beginning of this thread where it's pointed out that UPS has been in negotiating in good faith with the company for over 2 years and have not been able to reach an agreement. Both parties are not interested in this fight continuing, but neither can agree on one or more points. This is why the NMB exists, this is why strike authorization and the subsequent cooling off period exists, this is why Executive intervention triggering binding arbitration exists. It's what's called "leverage" and it's nothing personal, only business. A company can decide that they are unable or unwilling to compromise on an item negotiated. If the work group can not see a path forward they lay that grievance upon the National Mediation Board, who will assess the situation and determine if they truly are at an impasse or whether one or both parties have not explored all options or are operating in bad faith. If it's found that the company is refusing to budge and there truly is an impasse a work group will go to its collective workers and tally a strike vote. If the vote passes the union will petition the NMB for relief, which usually is a request for release from arbitration and an authority to strike. The NMB will generally release the parties from arbitration and demand a period of time (a cooling off period) before the union members can execute "self-help", or strike. At any time during this cooling off period both parties can return to the negotiating table, and most strikes are averted in this time period via an tentative agreement. If no agreement is reached and the cooling off period expires workers are legally allowed to strike. At any time during the cooling off period too the government can intervene and prevent a strike if it has compelling reason to believe that a strike would create a national or security emergency (and one could reasonably argue that the sudden stoppage of 1/3 of the cargo movement in the United States might qualify). This is codified through the National Railway Labor Act.

So all this to say, there are a LOT of mechanisms in place to keep union workers from just arbitrarily getting up and leaving is any little thing pisses them off. Also, to those of you who have voiced a disdain for organized labor, sorry. It's a 1st Amendment right.
 
With 100% backing of the IPA and MX group, I’m pretty sure it would be crippling to the operation. Not to mention the support from the ground side. Any one of our groups strike, the operation is severely crippled. This is union members supporting union members (not that we’ve seen 100% of that here from a select few JC members!). And contrary to what you believe from your personal experience, not a single qualified UPS dispatcher (not on probation) would be crossing any line. 100% unity.


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Just out of curiosity, do the UPS unions and their members have the financial WHEREWITHAL to sustain a strike? Have you all prepared to go toe-to-toe with management? Are you all ready for battle? I hope so...
 
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It's hilarious and tragic at the same time that Venezuela keeps getting marched out as the gold standard of socialism by people who either have not one single solitary clue about Venezuela or do and conveniently ignore many key points that explain why they are in the situation they're in. None the less, blurting out talking points (and old, beat to hell, debunked ones at that) will get you nowhere with this crowd, Sparky. Trolling isn't something Derg is going to suffer for any length of time. What say you either stick to the topic or just listen and maybe learn something.

k, thx. bye.
Learn something from you? If you believe that socialism has been debunked numerous times it is you who needs to learn something. Typical mob/group think on here.
 
Given your awareness of the dispatcher's role in operational control I'm curious how you've come to this conclusion? No dispatchers = no flights released = u no go fly today. Unless the President can figure out a way to suspend the CFRs I'm not seeing a pathway by which a part 121 carrier can operate if all of the dispatchers at the carrier are marching around with signs. I honestly think he would sooner order the dispatchers back to work and grant them binding arbitration.

It seems like there's a lot of "blaming the victim" here. It might help to go back to the beginning of this thread where it's pointed out that UPS has been in negotiating in good faith with the company for over 2 years and have not been able to reach an agreement. Both parties are not interested in this fight continuing, but neither can agree on one or more points. This is why the NMB exists, this is why strike authorization and the subsequent cooling off period exists, this is why Executive intervention triggering binding arbitration exists. It's what's called "leverage" and it's nothing personal, only business. A company can decide that they are unable or unwilling to compromise on an item negotiated. If the work group can not see a path forward they lay that grievance upon the National Mediation Board, who will assess the situation and determine if they truly are at an impasse or whether one or both parties have not explored all options or are operating in bad faith. If it's found that the company is refusing to budge and there truly is an impasse a work group will go to its collective workers and tally a strike vote. If the vote passes the union will petition the NMB for relief, which usually is a request for release from arbitration and an authority to strike. The NMB will generally release the parties from arbitration and demand a period of time (a cooling off period) before the union members can execute "self-help", or strike. At any time during this cooling off period both parties can return to the negotiating table, and most strikes are averted in this time period via an tentative agreement. If no agreement is reached and the cooling off period expires workers are legally allowed to strike. At any time during the cooling off period too the government can intervene and prevent a strike if it has compelling reason to believe that a strike would create a national or security emergency (and one could reasonably argue that the sudden stoppage of 1/3 of the cargo movement in the United States might qualify). This is codified through the National Railway Labor Act.

So all this to say, there are a LOT of mechanisms in place to keep union workers from just arbitrarily getting up and leaving is any little thing pisses them off. Also, to those of you who have voiced a disdain for organized labor, sorry. It's a 1st Amendment right.

3 years :(


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Just out of curiosity, do the UPS unions and their members have the financial WHEREWITHAL to sustain a strike? Have you all prepared to go toe-to-toe with management? Are you all ready for battle? I hope so...

You don’t think we are that foolish to not be ready and willing, considering we had a 100% strike vote, do you?


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You don’t think we are that foolish to not be ready and willing, considering we had a 100% strike vote, do you?


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I'd just like to see you all exert some REAL leverage here. One, UPS' management doesn't enjoy the best of reputations to begin with; they've had a bad reputation for decades. Two, you all have the opportunity to make the first step in restoring some semblance of balance WRT labor/management relations. The balance of power has shifted in favor of management-far too much, IMO. This goes for ALL industries, not just the airlines. When management can literally dictate the terms; when they can tell labor that they'll take the deal and like it; then, they have too much power. As Lord Acton once said, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I'd like to see you guys succeed, because it not only helps you guys; it helps everybody. It helps everybody because it'll help bring back something that's sorely needed: a balance of power between labor and management.
 
Spoken like a guy who has no clue how collective bargaining and labor law works, and apparently didn't do too well in history class. But hey, if you're good with letting corporations dictate work rules, wages, and benefits for you then Somalia is looking
Spoken like a guy who has no clue how collective bargaining and labor law works, and apparently didn't do too well in history class. But hey, if you're good with letting corporations dictate work rules, wages, and benefits for you then Somalia is looking for a few good men!
Hysterical.
Spoken like a guy who has no clue how collective bargaining and labor law works, and apparently didn't do too well in history class. But hey, if you're good with letting corporations dictate work rules, wages, and benefits for you then Somalia is looking for a few good men!
No clue how collective bargaining works? LOL History class? From the guy who thinks socialism works? I certainly hope no group allows you to negotiate on their behalf.
 
Spoken like a guy who has no clue how collective bargaining and labor law works, and apparently didn't do too well in history class. But hey, if you're good with letting corporations dictate work rules, wages, and benefits for you then Somalia is looking
Spoken like a guy who has no clue how collective bargaining and labor law works, and apparently didn't do too well in history class. But hey, if you're good with letting corporations dictate work rules, wages, and benefits for you then Somalia is looking for a few good men!
Hysterical.
Spoken like a guy who has no clue how collective bargaining and labor law works, and apparently didn't do too well in history class. But hey, if you're good with letting corporations dictate work rules, wages, and benefits for you then Somalia is looking for a few good men!
No clue how collective bargaining works? LOL History class? From the guy who thinks socialism works? I certainly hope no group allows you to negotiate on their behalf.
 
You don’t think we are that foolish to not be ready and willing, considering we had a 100% strike vote, do you?


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Are you all ready for this to go days, weeks, or possibly months though? UPS had a strike in 1997 that lasted 16 days. In American history, some strikes, such as the United Mine Workers in 1946, lasted months; that particular strike lasted eight months. While I don't foresee a UPS strike lasting that long, who knows what will happen? You all have been at the bargaining table for two years, yet no agreement has been reached. How can that possibly bode well? Does that not indicate a simmering animosity on both sides? And if both sides have this animosity pre-strike, what will happen during a strike? Does that not indicate that management would be willing to drag this out?

With all that said, good luck!
 
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You don’t think we are that foolish to not be ready and willing, considering we had a 100% strike vote, do you?


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100% vote is not the same as an actual strike. Once that first paycheck is missed we will see how many choose not to cross the line.
 
100% vote is not the same as an actual strike. Once that first paycheck is missed we will see how many choose not to cross the line.
That was at the ROOT of my question. Does the union have its war chest ready? What about the individual union members? Having a 100% vote is one thing; missing those paychecks is another-UNLESS the workers have prepared themselves. Do they have at least 6 months' worth of expenses saved up?
 
Are you all ready for this to go days, weeks, or possibly months though? UPS had a strike in 1997 that lasted 16 days. In American history, some strikes, such as the United Mine Workers in 1946, lasted months; that particular strike lasted eight months. While I don't foresee a UPS strike lasting that long, who knows what will happen? You all have been at the bargaining table for two years, yet no agreement has been reached. How can that possibly bode well? Does that not indicate a simmering animosity on both sides? And if both sides have this animosity pre-strike, what will happen during a strike? Does that not indicate that management would be willing to drag this out?

With all that said, good luck!

There is no way, if a strike were to occur, that it would go months. Even weeks would be far fetched IMO. I personally don’t think it will get to that point and you’re assuming the current president would allow it.

Just to correct the statement that we’ve been negotiating for two years, it’s actually been 3+. We’ve been in mediation 23 months.

Just for your knowledge, the pilot group was in negotiations for 5 years. They had a majority strike vote and were about to be released from mediation when the IPA secured their current and leading contract.

Thanks for the well wishes!! :)




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Are you all ready for this to go days, weeks, or possibly months though? UPS had a strike in 1997 that lasted 16 days. In American history, some strikes, such as the United Mine Workers in 1946, lasted months; that particular strike lasted eight months. While I don't foresee a UPS strike lasting that long, who knows what will happen? You all have been at the bargaining table for two years, yet no agreement has been reached. How can that possibly bode well? Does that not indicate a simmering animosity on both sides? And if both sides have this animosity pre-strike, what will happen during a strike? Does that not indicate that management would be willing to drag this out?

With all that said, good luck!

The 1997 strike has the big difference in that UPS was a privately held company then. The stock price was set internally by the whims of the company. They showed something like $0.25 reduction in value per share. They’re public now, lots of investors. Lots of people who have a stake to lose money. And the board doesn’t set the price. Any strike by any unit on the property would be a huge impact to the shareholders. That, not the service interruption, would resolve any labor issues quick.

And yes, I’m a socialist. If for the sole reason that I won’t have to negiotate the fee for the fire fighters to save my home and family should s fire break out in my house.

I’m under no illusion that the pumpkin president would allow an all out strike to happen. But if it were to... well let’s just say I have a few months salary set aside for a rainy days. Just as I did in a non union shop where you could be terminated for bad breath or the wrong hair color. It’s just s good idea.
 
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